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Any good links to give an overview of the French education system? Is there an ideal time for a UK schooled child to join?


Daft Doctor

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Hi, the threads on this part of the Forum are fascinating, but I wondered if anyone knows a web link to help me get a full grasp of the french education system (including school stage changes, key exams, etc).  There are a lot of terms I don't understand, such as what the different parts of the BACS are and what they mean, and I would like to know what is considered a good performance in these exams.  The results for all the schools are available, but it seems there are no grades as such, only percentages passing or failing.  There are no league tables as such, as there are in England, so any insight would help us compare potential schools.

I have a 7 year old and we are considering a permanent move to France in the next year or 2.  What age would anyone consider to be least favourable for joining the french education system?  Any advice much appreciated.       

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My son joined the French education system shortly after his 10th birthday - he's now in his 5th year (of 7) towards becoming a Vet. Daughter was 5 when she joined the system and is in 1st year of Pharmacy. The system (in it's early stages) is very easy to understand. Children are assessed yearly and redouble if they are not keeping up. In the last year of college (usually age 14 or 15) they take their Brevet - sort of like the old school leaving cert. Most go on to Lycee to do a Bac - there are three levels of Bac - Bac Pro where you are expected to go out to work afterwards. These Bacs are very much oriented to the practical. The technical Bacs after which it is usual to go on to do a BTS or some such short education course. Bac S, ES or L - the pure Bacs - after which you are expected to go on to longer education courses (Uni or Classes Preparatoires). The general pass rate for all Bacs is 10/20 (50%) but you will be reassessed is your pass is between 8/20 and 9.9/20 to find out if there were reasons as to why you did not get the required minimum.

Depending on what you wish to do after Bac really determines what is considered a good pass. If you want to get into Prepas, for instance, you would be expected to have passed your Bac with a mention bien (above 14/20).

Once you get into the Prepas/Uni system things get a little more complicated because there are quite often "concours" to get into certain career paths. An example is my daughter - 1st year of Pharmacy. Currently there are 500 pupils in her year. There is a concours in May and there are 131 place available for 2nd year Pharmacy. Once through the concours, providing your work is up to standard, you will remain on the path to qualifying.

Veterinary Science is even more difficult - out of the 2500 candidates most years there are only 370 places for them countrywide!!

Concours are competitions - it is the first (best) of the available numbers past the post who get offered the places.

My advice to you would be to look at the available schools in the area that you are looking to move to. Choose a school that you feel will suit your child - often for non-French speaking children smaller schools are more comfortable in the first instance. Take an active but not interfering interest in every aspect of your child's education - ask the teachers if you do not understand something that is happening. In the meantime - invest in some French language lessons for your child so that he/she gets here able to communicate with his/her classmates.

Hope that all helps - ask anything more specific if you like - I have a wealth of information but don't want to make the first answer too long and complicated.

Lucinda

    

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Thanks very much lucinda.  I checked out the BAC pass rates for the Lycee local to where we hope to relocate, but wondered what is considered to be a good percentage of students passing (I realise that the higher the better of course but wondered if there is a benchmark figure which suggests a school is doing well)?

Also we wondered what the availability and level of IT education was in French schools these days, and at what stage IT tends to be introduced into the curriculum?

Any help you can offer is gratefully received

 

 

 

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DD - I have 4 children, who have been educated in a mixture of French and British systems.  My opinion is that the sooner a child enters the French system, the better.  If you were thinking of delaying your move to France, take a look at exchanges run by www.enfamille.com  Two of my children did exchanges with En Famille and the French they learned was a good grounding for moving to France permanently.

Don't forget that there is an option of your daughter being in a French school until after the Brevet (done at the end of Year 10, if she doesn't redouble a year) and then doing 'A' Levels at a private UK 6th form college or at an International School.

 

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[quote user="Daft Doctor"]

Thanks very much lucinda.  I checked out the BAC pass rates for the Lycee local to where we hope to relocate, but wondered what is considered to be a good percentage of students passing (I realise that the higher the better of course but wondered if there is a benchmark figure which suggests a school is doing well)?

Also we wondered what the availability and level of IT education was in French schools these days, and at what stage IT tends to be introduced into the curriculum?

Any help you can offer is gratefully received

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Pass rates will vary depending on the type of Bac taken - as a benchmark you should look at the pass rates for the Bac S as this is considered to be the most difficult Bac of all for various reasons. If your local Lycee is getting around 75% of it's students through then that's fairly good. Be warned though Colleges and Lycees can change within a matter of a year if the Proviseur changes. The College my two went to had a terrible reputation when our son started there - I was told NOT to send him there by many people. Within two years the head had changed and a lot of improvement was seen. Then it became THE college to go to!!

As for IT education - this varies and is on the change. Certainly my two had none whatsoever - they are entirely self-taught in that respect. I do know though that this is changing rapidly but again level of provision can vary from region to region and even from school to school. It is something that you need to acertain for yourself when you visit the proposed school. Sorry I can't really answer more definitely on that particular subject. 

Hope this helps.

Lucinda

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Hi Lucinda

Your children's achievements and experiences are very encouraging to someone like myself who is concerned about the education system here.  I agree though on the IT front, none so far and my son is 9 and has been in school here for 6 years.  He is very IT literate though due to having these facilities at home, would be good to get some at school, hoping for this with my move to the Alps as the schools do appear so far to be much more modern and a lot better funded. 

Actually I noticed you mentioned Chamonix Daft Doctor, is that where you are heading?

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Hi Panda,

I'm glad you've found my comments encouraging. My two are by no means the exception - there are an awful lot of success stories out there - but people tend not to spread good news - doom and gloom often seems to be the order of the day which is a real shame. 

IT is something that is being addressed but, as with all things in the French system, it is taking time to implement. Hopefully, your son will have exposure to that when he moves on to college in the next year or so.

Lucinda 

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Hi Lucinda,

The BAC S pass rate at the local lycee was 97% this year with almost a third with either 'tres bien' or 'bien' rated passes, which from what you say seems quite good.  The BAC ES was 95% and all the others were over 90% except the BAC Pro which was 80%.  Seems to be a decent school at the moment, quite encouraging.  Its a big step to put your little one into a strange country and a strange (to them) education system at the same time, so I agree it is nice to hear it is by no means all bad!  Practical considerations mean it may be 3 or 4 years before we can make the move, which would make Jack either 10 or 11 at the time, i.e right on the cusp between primary school and college.  In your opinion, would there be a significant advantage either for him to get the last year of primary school in or for him to simply make a fresh start in the first year of college (the local college has only 200 or so pupils)? 

Panda, we are indeed looking at the Chamonix area as it seems to tick the boxes for us, but not Chamonix itself as it always seems incredibly busy and congested whenever we've been!

Best wishes.   

 

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Definitely try to get Jack here so that he can do the last year of Primary school (CM2) - it will give him time to adjust to the new system and to pick up the language without being under too much pressure. The first year of College can be a bit stressful as it's the year that the children are assessed to find out their levels of competence in all subjects. In the meantime try to get Jack French language lessons so that he has a reasonable level of French when he starts at school here.

Simon only had two terms in CM2 before going to college but we had a very good teacher who saw his potential and made sure that he was brought up to speed. I'm not saying it will be easy for Jack but you can certainly help him by making sure he is fully prepared for his new life in France.

Lucinda

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That is very helpful advice indeed, thank you very much.  Jack has a December birthday, so in France is it age attained by 31st August which dictates which year he would go into (as in England), or is it 31st December (which I thought I read somewhere else)?  Thanks again 
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Thanks Panda.  In that case, if I am right, if we (say) moved over to France January 2012, Jack would be 10 and would ordinarily join the last 2 terms of CM2, being one of the youngest in his year.  He would almost certainly have to retake that year, but would do so with the next lot of CM2 pupils and most new friends made would go on to college.  If our move did occur then, it would seem better to ask school to put him in CM1 at the outset instead of CM2, then he would hopefully go on to CM2 the following year with the same group of french children.  That would give him 5 terms at primary school before going on to College, picking up both the french language and french friends along the way, and would make him one of the eldest in the year.  Only trouble would be if they were sticky about him voluntarily dropping down to CM1 at the outset, though as I understand it, about 30% of french children 'redouble' a year anyway, so I would hope that kind of approach wouldn't be a problem? 
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Hi Odile, we certainly will be doing what we can to get Jack and ourselves up to speed before going.  My wife and I speak a little bit (I'm probably the more confident of us at pres), and we try hard to learn whenever we are over there.  Have used a bit of Rosetta Stone, and will probably try Michel Thomas courses for ourselves, at least in the short term.  Later on, will try to get some more face to face tuition.  Jack already has started French at school at aged 6, and we just got him a french course for his Nintendo DS to get him going.  It is games based, and he's very competitive, so he's already well into it.  He'll need individual help later on as well of course.  If anyone has any thoughts on maximising learning prior to moving to France, I'd be very grateful to hear it. Thanks.  
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I have no idea where you are - but personally I feel Jack would really benefit from informal conversation - do you have any secondary schools nearby? Most have French assistant/e/s over to UK for the year, who only work part-time, for a fairly low salary. Ask the Head of Languages if they could ask him/her if interested to get in touch with you. Most would be only too happy to supplement income + have friendly people to visit + share meal from time to time, etc.

Bonne chance

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Shame, one of my ex. Swiss (French) speaking students was there until a few weeks ago. She would have been great. Hope you find somebody from one of the local schools.

Again, well done for preparing early. Recently an English family asked for help with finding a school for a 15 year old the day before the start of term!

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