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Using a 2cv RHD legally in France


Deepdale

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Hello, I have just joined your forum and am pleasantly surprised at the quality of questions and answers offered here, and hope you can help me. I'm aware that I might be asked to search out previously given answers, but I don't think they fully detail my position. Here goes:

12/13 years ago, after the birth of our daughter, my wife and I took our 2cv to France with the expectation that we'd leave it there, and use it, after going through whatever administrative hoops existed at the time, whenever we went to visit her parents on the outskirts of Paris. This would enable us to get a cheap flight, or train ticket from GB, (yes I know that was probably wishful thinking.....), and we could have use of our own vehicule in France. Well we did duly leave it there, and like many "best laid plans...", we never did use it, and instead, we  more or less travelled by car each and every time we went....which was very often.

The 2cv has languished in my father-in-law's garage ever since, gradually deteriorating........  Then, this year, we decided to have it properly restored by an afficionado, residing in Le Cher (18), with a definite view to actually using it when we are in France. Well, now it is restored to its pride and glory, and we do want to use it......legally.

First connundrum: the MOT expired in 1993, as did the last tax disc.  When the SORN regulations came in in GB, we didn't have it done, as it was first registered, new, at first purchase by us in 1986, and was not covered by the SORN rules. Can any of your erudite members help me, as to the path we should follow, in getting it properly "covered" for use in France? I don't want to be an insurance cheat, from a GB  perspective. I'm a bit worried about being able to manoeuvre through the mine-field that is French bureaucracy. We have had conflicting advice from many angles, including the repairer/restorer, the local "controle technique" chap, a (quite) big French insurance broker, the local annexe of the Prefecture, as well as the policeman husband of a family friend of the in-laws.  (It seems that wherever you are in France, there is a different "take" on the procedures to follow).

The language does not bother me, and it bothers my french wife even less but  one "Clochemerlesque" scenario I have in my mind is our attempt to get someone, somewhere, to address the acceptabilty, if that's the right word, of a 2cv made in Paris, bought by us new in GB in 1986, with RHD, coming back to be used in France......I can also see myself having to take the car back home with us after this coming visit, to get an MOT done, and new isurance issued, in order to return to France next time and have it set up there......I'm also somewhat concerned about the fact that my English paperwork has long since expired, date-wise. Maybe I'm overly worried about nothing, but can anyone point me in the direction of easily understandable procedures which mirror the case I've described above? Thank you in advance if you can.

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I don't see you neccessarily have a problem but the first thing you can do is forget about anything to do with the UK, such as SORN, MOT etc. etc. as it's utterly irrelevant in this circumstance.

From the French perspective how long it has been in the country is of no consequence so, with one possible caveat, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to register it just as you would any other car you had just brought over.

The caveat is the registration document. Obviously, from that long ago, this will be in the old format which preceeded the current V5 (can't remember the name, probably still V5) and I suppose it's conceivable that the (your !) Prefecture might pick up on that and make an issue of it although I can't think of a logical reason why they would, it is after all, only a proof of ownership.

John: PLEASE PLEASE don't jump in with the Registered keeper-v-Owner sketch [blink]

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Welcome to the forum.

Your situation is quite straightforward - like everyone else on this forum, you have a foreign registered vehicle that you wish to register in France.  Provided you have the UK registration document, you merely follow the steps as outlined in the FAQ entitled "Importing and Registering your UK car to France" which you'll find at the head of this Driving section.

You can ignore the first stage (export declaration), leaving you to obtain the import VAT certificate, a type approval certificate and a CT certificate.  Once you have those, you complete a simple registration application form and hand everything in to your prefecture and receive your new carte grise.

There's no 'minefield' of French bureaucracy - the process is the same for everyone throughout France.

 

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Hello Deepdale.  I have seen something very similar to this posted elsewhere a while back. Was it you by any chance?  The chap had a daughter about the same age as yours, and a son called Andrew (if I remember rightly then his son was on a work placement abroad).  Except that I think he also mentioned a Mk 2 Jag. 

 

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Deepdale

I would toddle along to my prefecture, armed with 2CV logbook, and ask them for a list of documents that they need. In that way you will discover any local interpretations.

Ernie

RK vs owner is only an issue if one is trying to re-reg a vehicle that seems to belong to A.N. Other. It would probably not occur to the French that the UK does not have a document of title for a vehicle. Though a country that needs both a plastic card and a sheet of paper as evidence of once-upon-a-time driving "ability" is capable of any level of stupidity.

John

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[quote user="Iceni"]

Deepdale

I would toddle along to my prefecture, armed with 2CV logbook, and ask them for a list of documents that they need. In that way you will discover any local interpretations.

[/quote]

Or you could save yourself the trouble and just follow the FAQ which was carefully compiled by reference to the relevent French legal sources... [8-)]

There are no local interpretations - all the necessary documents are commonly published on the prefecture websites.

 

 

 

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If practical you might do yourself a favour by going to the main Prefecture for your department. At least then if all goes to script you'll walk out with your new Carte Gris in your hand.

I gather from some other peoples experiences that some Sous-Prefectures just post the documents there anyway thus introducing an unneccessary delay.

 

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  • 3 months later...
Why the revival in interest I wonder Cat ?

Oddly and coincidentally I have just bought a 2CV, a 1988 Charleston which I'm collecting tomorrow, and it's circumstances are not million miles removed from the one in question.

Of French origin (LHD), taken to UK and registered there, exported to France about 5 years but never re-registered, then further mired by a change of ownership followed by another change - to me.

It needs some work before it's ready for the road but I'm looking forward to the fun and games !

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[quote user="Cat"]

[quote user="ErnieY"]Why the revival in interest I wonder Cat ?

[/quote]

Just that I noticed that the OP had posted on the CD Drive Problem thread last night, and it jogged my memory.

[/quote]

Bloody hell, Cat!  Quelle memoire!

Are you a cat, a woman or an elephant?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

My wife also has a 2cv which has also been kept unused in our garage for the last six years and is generally in a good condition for it's age with just one previous owner. We have often thought of putting it (or should I say 'her') back on the road and taking it over to our house in France. We would really like to know who the afficionade is, as our house is in Le Cher and we may consider having the restoration done in France. 

 

Simon

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You seem critical. I'm sorry if you were offended by your perception, of my "lack" of courtesy. I'm sure the end of my original post ended in something like  "thank you in advance for any help."  Your and Ernie's responses were of immense help. Ernie turns out to have somewhat prophetic powers........

We duly went down to Le Cher, and collected our restored pride and joy, with the words of my father-in-law ringing in my ears: "c'est de la rigolade tout ca, tu veux aller voir la préfecture au mois d'août.....t'es fou" . The restorer had kindly had it put through a CT, "pas de problème monsieur, elle est superbe." The "controleur" had also withdrawn the "wrong-sided" rear foglight......"y'en a pas besoin en France monsieur....". We arranged all the paperwork as you suggested, CT, Type Approval, temporary insurance, and tried for a VAT paid document: they took one look at my "old style" V5, said it wasn't the normal type they dealt with, then demanded to see the original receipt  from  when we purchased   the car brand new................in 1986.....(which I didn't have........), asked us for our utility bill showing proof of address in France. Can you guess the rest? We don't have a personal "home address" in France, we stay with my father-in-law. His utilty bills, because he's the house owner...........and I'm the 2cv owner. Limbo. "Come back with a utilty bill, in your own name" was the firm, but very respectful, response.  "Je te l'avais dit, je te l'avais dit...." repeated my "beau-père."

Well not wanting to cheat on the road,  we recently took the 2cv back to GB.  I was stopped at both customs  check-points.....so that the respective officers could,  "jeter un coup d'oeil à la belle deux-deuche" and chat to the GB officer who "used to have one of these years ago sir.....do they still......? etc etc......."  Then I put it through the MOT....." no problem sir, it's in a fantastic state. I've just blanked off the right-hand drive headlights so it will go through without any problems................that's quite in order for the MOT here sir..." Next came up to date insurance here, and am joyfully using the Charleston at least 2/3 times a week.......whilst we work out a way of getting our name on a utility bill in France. We don't want to bother elderly beau-père, by suggesting he puts his name on the registration document....."tu blagues, non?".but it might be a last resort.

I can heartily recommend the workmanship of the young chaps who restored the 2cv to as new status. I don't want to advertise their details on here without permission, but if anyone wants to be put in touch with them privately, let me know. I have had only intermittent access to the Internet, over the last few months, hence my lack of responses. Elderly French fathers-in-law, in very rural backwaters, tend not to see the advantage of having access to such technology.....

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To repeatedly hear all too similar stories of intransigent and unhelpfull fonctionaires whether it be car registration, health depresses me eventually.

Where is the will to help someone on the other side of the counter, we cant all be budding terrorists, money launderers or illegal imigrants can we?

I wonder if the person at the prefecture would have told an 18 year old French teenager trying to register their first car to wait untill they get a flat of their own with utility bills, I suppose that they would have had an identity card but I do remember being sent back for the magical utility bill.

Would the car insurance certificate, showing you at that address plus say bank statements suffice I wonder?

Editted.

I have just reread the original post and he wants to use it while visiting his beau pêre on holidays.

Interesting conundrum.

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To be fair, JR, you can't label a fonctionaire who is correctly following the rules as being intransigent and unhelpful.....

If this had involved an 18 year old teenager living at home, then he could produce a letter signed by his father 'sur honneur' stating that he was living there, plus a supporting document along the lines of a social security card, livret de famille, ANPE letter, etc.   [;-)]

Deepdale - apologies, but I also missed the point that you were merely visiting.  In terms of having a mobile phone contract, this would be sufficient for registration of the vehicle, but to get one, you normally have to be resident in France and supply proof of address......

 

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[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

To be fair, JR, you can't label a fonctionaire who is correctly following the rules as being intransigent and unhelpful.....

[/quote]  Wow [:-))] All these vitriolic anti-French Fonctionaire posts of late.  So what is new? Its been like that for years.

Wasn't there somebody on here who had a much publicised and mentioned in every other post "French girlfriend " who was supposedly a high placed fonctionaire?  Wouldn't you think he would be leaping in here and defending the reputation and honour of French fonctionaires?[blink][Www]

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Good to see my cyberstalker is still active, and I am pleased to see that  this post was an improvement on some of your more recent personal attacks that heve been removed by the mods

I wont respond to your jibes Ron other than to refer you to the message you carry at the bottom of all your postings.

 

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[quote user="Sunday Driver"]To be fair, JR, you can't label a fonctionaire who is correctly following the rules as being intransigent and unhelpful.....[/quote]Agreed however this presupposes that they do actually know the rules in the first place. Innumerable experiences with various government bodies, most notably CPAM and Prefectures many of which have been related here, would strongly suggest that a disturbing number do not and are either not up to speed on the current rules or make it up on the fly safe in the knowledge that they can usually bamboozle or filibuster non French speakers.

If one does not care to entertain that idea then the only other logical conclusion to be drawn is that deliberate non cooperation is taking place, quite possibly driven by the fact that, as I'm sure we are all aware, not all Brits are universally welcome in this country [blink]

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If one does not care to entertain that idea then the only other logical conclusion to be drawn is that deliberate non cooperation is taking place, quite possibly driven by the fact that, as I'm sure we are all aware, not all Brits are universally welcome in this country [blink]

Ern, wash your keyboard out with soap.

Comments like that will really upset the fluffy rose tinted spec brigade. Their neighbours are always helpful, village communities are always welcoming, everyone (tries to ) speak English to them.........dont they?????????????

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