Tony F Dordogne Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Just a heads up really. Somebody local to me, Scottish lady person, was recently stopped by a Gendarme for speeding, about 30 meters into an 'agglomeration' and was fined €90 on the spot for speeding.He didn't have a mobile unit with him, no hand gun and no fixed unit, it was just his word against hers and she denied she was speeding, but he insisted she was. Anyway, she paid up because she was too frightened not to, and despite her limited French, expressed her displeasure. He said that he was experienced and could assess speeds without any evidential back up.So, I toddled off to the local Brigade Office today to speak to the new Bureau Chef, who I happened to meet at a soiree on Sunday and asked him about the case. His view was that the Gendarme was on difficult ground, that the woman shouldn't have paid and that it was one person's word against another. If she wishes to appeal, he explained the appeals procedure and he couldn't beleive that a Gendarme would do this without some formal back up, like a mobile radar gun.BUT, he also said that in certain circumstances, Gendarmes can do this sort of thing, use an assessed speed to fine people, but the circumstances have to be very exceptional - very high speeds (not in this case, she stopped safely within 30 meters, we've measured it), in a pedestrian area where cars are severely limited or at, for example, the scene of an accident where excessive speed can be dangerous.So, legally yes, exceptional circumstances only tho and in this case, he sort of looked sheepish, said he wouldn't accept that sort of thing from people in his office, but I'd understand that he couldn't openly criticise a colleague etc etc and if they do appeal, the officer concerned may decide that they need stopping more often, tho that is not condoned of course ..............This is just a heads up really - btw, the car was on French plates so there's no way he could have known that the driver wasn't French, seems the G men do this to the French also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil & Pat Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Thanks for that Tony. Did the Bureau Chief explain the correct procedure in case of a disputed speed? Should one pay up and then appeal or refuse on the spot? What is the risk on the second path, possible arrest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Methinks something not quite right here......No argument about using assessed speed in certain permitted circumstances, but what I don't understand is why this particular officer would insist on an on-the-spot cash payment rather than following the standard procedure of issuing a proces-verbal. Did she get a receipt?Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Phil & Pat, yes he did, you have to appeal in writing to the local Bureau d'Administration (locally at Sarlat) and ask them to annul and then fight it all in Court. And you don't get your money back immediately, likely you have to wait, just in case the Bureau find against you.No SD, it's not that at all as far as we can tell, it was one of the questions the local Chef asked me and didn't seem surprised by it at all, the G Man issued her with the appropriate paper work, he even signed it - cheeky sod - not a problem there and he even had a colleague there but she apparently wanted no part in the whole affair. He was just 'insistant'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Not 10 minutes ago on TF2's "Service consommateur" they advocated a 3 point plan for PV's like this, dont accept responsibility, dont sign the PV and surtout dont pay.I'd like to see them put their money where their mouth is , the G men round me are frightening enough without their holstered pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 [quote user="Sunday Driver"]Methinks something not quite right here......No argument about using assessed speed in certain permitted circumstances, but what I don't understand is why this particular officer would insist on an on-the-spot cash payment rather than following the standard procedure of issuing a proces-verbal. Did she get a receipt?Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?[/quote]My thoughts too... [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Âme Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think I am thinking what you're thinking, SD. [8-)]There has to be the option to pay later, as no one is obliged to be carrying a bank card or 90€ in cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 In my errr limited experience of getting tickets for speeding in France. If you present a British driving licence they give you an on the spot fine as they say they will not be able to chase you up. Strangely they never ask about why you are in/on a French registered wehicle.I was set up in Spain on the way to the Catalan GP this year on my motorcycle, cop not impressed no identity card, no passport, fined me $150 euros for touching a white line, would not accept cash and demanded Visa.Great new that was 6 months ago and has not appeared on my Barclaycard.It all about spondoolies and reaching targets so the chief constable can get a new top of the range Volvo.Much easier way to target crime than getting your hands dirty with the unwashed that don't pay fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This is an interesting topic for me as last year my wife was stopped for speeding by two gerndarmes (with a mobile radar). Despite having a french car and licence they demanded that she go to the bank and get the 90 euros for the fine. No option was given to pay later and, more importantly, no receipt was given.It would be interesting to hear from 'gerndarme' on this site as to what, exactly the law says on this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil & Pat Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm not sure I'm thinking what others are thinking, but I'd sure like to know. Heck, I don't even know if /when one speed limit sign cancels a previous one! [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I was stopped by 3 gendarmes (a 'chef; and 2 trainees) for giving way at a stop junction. I believed that I had executed a perfect stop, as I saw them in the distance and was being ultra-careful. But it was my word against theirs.I did not have any significant money or cards on me as I had just popped out. Without payment there and then, they said they would impound my car and that I should arrange for someone to collect me. At this point, I asked for an interpreter and immediately the 'chef' gave me the option of going to the station to pay the 90 euros that afternoon.I have missed out large chunks of the story - I was in fact at the roadside with them for over 20 mins. But overall, it was very fightening and has made one law abiding citizen (i.e. me) very nervous about the gendarmes.I think that it is their loss. To fight crime, the gendarmes need the goodwill of the public. Being glorified tax collectors will not help with this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Having considered this for longer - I think as soon (about 1 millisecond) as the policeman recognises a foreign accent they think they may not get paid and or spend to much chasing the fine that they push for immediate payment.They impounded the car and took my Uncles to a cash point and relieved them of 600 euros for supposedly breaking a 70kph limit by a few kph which they deny. It turned out the bit of paper they were given was a months ban! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil & Pat Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote user="Dog"]They impounded the car and took my Uncles to a cash point and relieved them of 600 euros for supposedly breaking a 70kph limit by a few kph which they deny.It turned out the bit of paper they were given was a months ban! [/quote]That seems a bit harsh, shouldn't it have been a fine of 135 euros, reduced to 90 for payment within 3 days? Plus an on-the-spot ban for one month? Are you sure they were real Gendarmes?For one who has yet to fall foul of the The Law, could someone please outline or link to the 'correct' procedure for an on-the-spot fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Whilst I have not actually been fined, I have a question regarding speed limits and signs.On the outskirts of Percy in Normandy (some may know it) there is the normal town sign, no speed limit sign. I was under the impression that, in the absence of a specific limit sign, the urban limit was 70kph. 50kph is common but is specifically signed.I was stopped at a hand held radar site and, after a licence check, was warned that the limit was 50, I was very probably doing 55 maybe even 60 through the trap. Still no 50 sign on any approach to Percy, what are the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"]Whilst I have not actually been fined, I have a question regarding speed limits and signs.On the outskirts of Percy in Normandy (some may know it) there is the normal town sign, no speed limit sign. I was under the impression that, in the absence of a specific limit sign, the urban limit was 70kph. 50kph is common but is specifically signed.I was stopped at a hand held radar site and, after a licence check, was warned that the limit was 50, I was very probably doing 55 maybe even 60 through the trap. Still no 50 sign on any approach to Percy, what are the rules?[/quote]50kph for built up areas, except where indicated otherwise. The start of the built-up area is indicated by the village or town sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"]On the outskirts of Percy in Normandy (some may know it) there is the normal town sign, no speed limit sign. [/quote]When you pass the town name sign, in the absence of any other signage, then the limit is 50KPH, and then rises again to 90 KPH (in the absence of any other indicated limit) when you pass the town name sign with the bar through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Just to be clear, that's a town/village sign with a RED border.Sid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The reason I asked was because a road atlas of France that we have states the urban limit is 70 unless posted as 50. That was the cause of the confusion. We will now ignore the advice in the road atlas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Stick with your code de la route, Steve.......[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Âme Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Is the code de la route available to read on line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/french/elaws_statutes_90h08_f.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think thats the Canadian Code de la Route! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Yep, the French one is herehttp://www.droit.org/codes/CROUTENL.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Sorry, my mistake, however, its useful if you plan a visit to Canada..................[:D][:D]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 'spose I better read as going home later this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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