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Wiring Colours


robbie

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I have recently installed some eqpt to my heating (Frost and pipe stat along with a timer) but the existing wiring between the main on/off switch on the wall and the boiler had a red connected to the earth wire behind the main two pole switch. White went to Neutral and Black went to Live.

Is this 'normal'??

The wire feeding the two pole switch from the consumer unit was correct (in my mind) red-live, blue-neutral, grn-earth

As I didnt have time to find out the answer while I was in France last week, I have connected the wires back again using the existing 'convention' and it does work fine

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I've come across black and white for live and neutral quite often in old wiring. It could have been installed any time from the early post-war years, up to the 70s. You were lucky to find an earth wire at all!

I've just stripped out some very old wiring from the loft - circa 1750 with wattle-and-daub insulation -  which was either faded grey or olive green originally, a colour you never see today, because of the possibility of confusion with the y/g earth wire.

p

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Believe it or not, red wire was used for earth on Italian equipment some years ago (ca 1970), as I discovered when our workers complained about getting shocks from Italian-made hand held equipment they were using. The plugs had been replaced to fit our outlets, and the red wire, not unreasonably for someone not aware of this, had been connected to live.

Was your boiler maybe made long ago in Italy?

I suggest you trace where the red wire goes to from the switch connection. If it does go to earth you should replace it with a yellow/green wire, or tape it with yellow/green electrical tape.

 

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Red was always common for the phase: and black for the neutral. And green for earth.

Same with equipment wiring until circa 1971/2 in the UK.

And thereafter, of course, installed hard wired (house) wiring on single phase domestic, was Red (phase), Black (Neutral), until the EU regs changed - again!

Can't remember when UK hard wiring switched over.

Wasn't 1760 though..............................................................

[Www]

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thanks guys for the responses, it only confirms my thoughts that the guy wasnt really sure of what he was doing, probably not an electrician.

I have traced the wires and all 'seems' fine except for the colour convention and the fact that Live and Neutral are reveresed on the pump. The system has probably been working fine for years and I didnt have time to alter/rewire to a true convention due to time restraints. As I am the only one likel yot work on the wiring over the coming years I will change it when I get time later next year.

To complete the work, I made the simple decision to insert all of my wiring and equipment between the two pole switch and the flex, then pickup the existing wiring 'as is' and it did work fine.

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I remember ages ago in the UK when wiring light circuits I put coloured sleeving round one of the cables that could carry live but could not be the correct colour because of the two cores being different colours, etc..  How do the French feel about coloured sleeving ?

Ian

(And many thanks in advance for any responses - don't want to upset anybody by being late saying thank you).
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As far as I know, for wiring, the only absolutes are: -

Neutral MUST be blue

Blue must ONLY be used for neutral

Earth MUST be yellow/green*

Yellow/green must ONLY be used for earth (natch)

The corollary to this last is that neither green nor yellow cables are available in France these days

* so uk-type red and black twin+earth with its unsleeved earth wire (and its black-for-neural) is also a no-no.

p
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I've been watching this thread with some interest because I'm convinced that whoever wired my relatively modern (70's) house must have been clueless and also totally colour blind.

At various places around the house I have combinations of red, black, blue, white, yellow, mauve and a few green\yellows.

I say a few green\yellows because for whatever reason (and I cannot think of one) there are no earth's in the lounge or hall sockets, they aren't even 3 pin outlets, yet the bedrooms and kitchen are and are earthed.

In my fuse box there is a piece of choc-bloc with something like 6 or 8 reds twisted together and stuffed into it then a single (same gauge !) wire off to the breaker. This is the circuit for virtually all my sockets except the kitchen. And this is all supposed to be better\safer than a good old ring main is it ?

Frankly it needs a rewire with a bigger fuse box, a bit of a shocker for such a modern property. At least everything is in conduit.

Another task for the burgeoning "To Do" list then [;-)]

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since we're doing horror stories...

I took the front off our fuse box when we moved in a couple of years ago to find that the little uninsulated metal strip below the breakers which makes a common rail or 'bus' for the earths, was accompanied by an identical one - probably canibalised from another fuse box - used to make a bus bar to feed lives to the various breakers! In addition to being uninsulated, it was unanchored and the natural flexibility of the wires had caused it to twist in the small free space and was at that time about 1mm from shorting on the earth bus.

This is not the first time I've encountered a mare's nest of wires in a tableau, which leads me to ask; are the copper connecting strips used to join all the phases and all neutrals a new innovation, or have they been available as long as there have been modules?

p

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

About time Steve Diesel posted another one of his wonderful pics of ten zillion wires going into a huge junction box!

On the point of Steve: he's not beeon "On" recently: anyone know if he's OK?

 

[/quote]I remember it................!

Perhaps Steve is in counselling. What with being paid in $ with which he then has to buy € I think he might be in need of it  [;-)]

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[quote user="ErnieY"]

I've been watching this thread with some interest because I'm convinced that whoever wired my relatively modern (70's) house must have been clueless and also totally colour blind.

At various places around the house I have combinations of red, black, blue, white, yellow, mauve and a few green\yellows.

...[/quote]

FWIW Many may say that 70's wiring is no longer considered 'modern'.  Standard cable colours at that time were Red, Black, Green some lighting cables had Red, Yellow and Blue cores. The yellow in this cable replaced white  in the late 60s or early 70s. Purple has never been a "recognised" colour but it did exist in some signal and control cables with all rainbow colours to signify the 7th conductor in the cable.  

All UK wiring colours changed in 2005 to "Harmonise" the UK with Europe. Brown replaced Red (Live and phase 1) - Blue replaced Black (Neutral),  Black replaced Yellow (Live phase 2) Grey replaced Blue (Live phase 3). This means that black has changed from  neutral to  live and blue changed from live to neutral - just to confuse everyone and we how have to place a notice at the consumer unit saying that the colours may be mixed if we install new cables in an old installation.

I have gathered that much of France is non-polarised as they don't differentiate between Live and Neutral at socket outlets (the MCBs in the consumer unit disconnects  both Live & Neutral). I'm sure that the colours should remain consistent throughout the installation but as the socket isn't polarised the 'correct' colour is not as significant as in a polarised socket such as in the UK. The only way to be sure is to test every time.

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[quote user="SteveTheLight"][quote user="ErnieY"]

I've been watching this thread with some interest because I'm convinced that whoever wired my relatively modern (70's) house must have been clueless and also totally colour blind.

At various places around the house I have combinations of red, black, blue, white, yellow, mauve and a few green\yellows.

...[/quote]

 The only way to be sure is to test every time.

[/quote]

When we were buying our house the previous owner ignored a bill

from EDF that was due before the sale.  When we arrived (in darkest

coldest February) we found that EDF had disconnected us at the pole

outside the house - both phase and neutral.  When they reconnected us

they managed to swap over the wires, so all blue wires became live and

all red wires became neutral.  A bit confusing until I worked out what

had happened.

And I still test every time.

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[quote user="Gluestick"]

About time Steve Diesel posted another one of his wonderful pics of ten zillion wires going into a huge junction box!

On the point of Steve: he's not beeon "On" recently: anyone know if he's OK?

 

[/quote]

Hi,

Still here, just a bit busy. No more horror pics at the moment but the latest saga was a frantic phone call from OH (in France, me in UAE), she was standing barefoot on damp tiles and brushed against the corrugated ss outlet pipe from the water heater and got a 'tingle'. Guess what - no earth, why am I not surprised? The old part of the house is definitley a case of "dont touch the steelwork". Another urgent job for the next visit.

Needless to say, the house has been left with the mains switched off.

ps No counselling, just resigned to fate and faint hope of a stronger dollar - Ins'Allah[:(]

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