Digital Electricity Meters

[UlsterRugby1999]

I have been tracking our electricity use and have become concerned that our weekly usage is, circa, 350 - 420kw. So, I started to ask our neighbours what their consumption was like. Like us, all are on a 3 phase supply and many like us have a loading of 20amps. Unlike us, many of them are farmers with machinery, plant and welding gear all hammering away. Unlike us, they are using, in some cases, 1/2 what we are.

So, I went to Soregies who supply to the Vienne and asked could I have the meter checked. Impossible they cried. Our digital meters cannot be wrong. They are, after all, digital.

I have since this, been keeping a weekly check on the read out and, in addition, become very vigilant about turning off everything that is on standby, especially at night. Despite this, the actual usage has either remained the same or. as in last weeks example, its gone up by 20%, yet it has become milder and there has been no one in the house during the day.

So, question time you clever folks - Is it possible that the meter could have a problem?

 

 

[Pierre ZFP]

Yes of course it could have a problem like any electrical device.

400Kw per week seems like an awful lot (do you have electric storage heating?)

Other people have had meter problems (although not clear if digital or mechanical)

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/894050/ShowPost.aspx

 

[La Guerriere]

Make sure that your meter is only supplying you i.e. turn everything off and make sure that the meter stops completely. There is always the possibility that electricity is leaking over the fence and somebody is getting free electricity from you ....

[Dog]

Check that a mystery man has not installed a hydroponic skunk production unit in your loft.

If he has make sure you get a good cut and watch out for thermal imaging helicopters.

[UlsterRugby1999]

Cheers Pierre ZFP. I had searched for a few days before posting and hadnt come across this one. Anyway, I have 2 600w toweling rads which will click on and off for perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 of the day. 1 fridge, 1 freezer, 1 fridge freezer, 1 2.5kw chauffe-eau (kept on 24/7). House, at present is heated by warm air from wood burner and thats about the bulk of it. As I say, the stand by stuff (incl all computers etc) are now turned off. Last weeks consumption was 400kws.

 

I'm off to test the system by switching everything off.

[suein56]

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]

Cheers Pierre ZFP Anyway 1 2.5kw chauffe-eau (kept on 24/7).

[/quote]

If there are only 2 of you there and you are both out all day could you not just switch the water on once during the day instead of 24/7? The insulation in these is such that they do keep the water really hot for ages and ages.

Sue

[Pierre ZFP]

That may not gain you anything, the calculation is very complex taking into account such things are water inlet temperature, temperature drop, required temp, how much is used  etc etc.  The only practical way to see if you would win is to (when the meter problem has been sorted) note the typical consumption for a week or two then go to switch on/off for a week or two and note the difference.  I'd be surprised if there was much in it.

Anyway UlsterRugby1999 do let us know how you get on

 

Of course the aluminium smelter and pottery kiln in the back garden might be taking a bit of juice [;-)]

 

 

[Anton Redman]

You should be able to check the electric meter by switching off absolutely every thing then running one appliance such as an electric kettle and checking how many amps it takes and how long it runs for.

If you have an electric chauffe d'eau it may be so fured up inside that it wastes a huge amount versus the amount of hot water it produces.

You can buy plus which check the amount of power for those items which are plugged in.

http://www.econologie.com/shop/econometre-sur-prise.html

I think they are available from the Hypermarkets for a lot less.

 

[UlsterRugby1999]

Cheers Anton - our chauffe-eau is about 2 - 2.5 years old. I now have a water filter operating but thats recent. maybe it is choked up. I'm going to check the electricity this afternoon so I'll let you know how that pans out. The wee meter looks a great idea too. I'll see what our test results are first.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]

If you have an electric chauffe d'eau it may be so fured up inside that it wastes a huge amount versus the amount of hot water it produces.

[/quote]

Urban myth perpetuted by the makers of calgon, water softeners and stick on magnet snake oil thingys.

If you think carefully about it where exactly is all this wasted heat energy going to go to except into the water that surrounds it?

Its reaction time may be slower but insulation does not change the laws of  thermodynamics.

[Chancer]

Re the consumption.

I have an all electric apartment with nightstorage heating, I also have the renovation going on in the main building which has lights running all day as well as mixers compressors, welders, woodworking machinery etc etc.

My consumption for the last 4 winter very cold months averages at 170kwh per week including 6kwh (storage heaters and immersion)throughout les heures creuses and 2.75kwh top up heating during cold evenings with a reversible clime.

I would say that you have a problem, if you can switch off your electric completely for a few days and see what activity reduces at the neighbouring farms!

[BIG MAC]

If the meter is not on the permises but in a little box elsewhere are you sure that you are looking at the correct meter and that some joker hasn't swapped either the tails or the meter ID?

I assume that you aren't building a body out of spare parts and hope to bring it to life by the application of a few hefty bolts of lightning? If so I can advise a) It's been tried already and didn't work , it nearly did but the beastie went all mardy and got a Kop on 2) The capacitors cannae take it Captain!

[UlsterRugby1999]

Funny thing is, that our neighbour is one of those winter wonderland eegits who has every available light show gadget on at Christmas time. Its so bad that air traffic controlers from Limoges & Poitiers redirect air traffic away from the area.

And guess what - NO - consumption went down for a week or so.

The meter is in the white external box and is the one with the blue select button which then runs through 8 or 9 readouts. Its also the one that the guy from Soregies reads.

[UlsterRugby1999]

Okay - here's the results of the Ulster jury.

Everything turned off at sockets etc and nothing plugged in at all. When I went to meter the counter was at 32w. It stayed there and didnt move until I plugged in a kettle to boil 1 ltr water. The counter started to increase in number and after 1 minute of use, for the kettle alone, had increased by 35w. It took 3 minutes to boil the kettle and the counter stopped dead at 137w. So it remained constant at 35w per minute for the kettle.

So, I guess this indicates that the counter is working fine. I take it that this indicates that I must simply have excessive use or does it .......................[8-)][8-)]

Any thoughts anyone

[Pierre ZFP]

I think you have little choice than to continue careful monitoring.  I know it's time consuming an labourious but maybe you have to repeat the kettle test with all your major appliances?

[powerdesal]

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]

Okay - here's the results of the Ulster jury.

Everything turned off at sockets etc and nothing plugged in at all. When I went to meter the counter was at 32w. It stayed there and didnt move until I plugged in a kettle to boil 1 ltr water. The counter started to increase in number and after 1 minute of use, for the kettle alone, had increased by 35w. It took 3 minutes to boil the kettle and the counter stopped dead at 137w. So it remained constant at 35w per minute for the kettle.

So, I guess this indicates that the counter is working fine. I take it that this indicates that I must simply have excessive use or does it .......................[8-)][8-)]

Any thoughts anyone

[/quote]

Whilst I am not familiar with the metering described, I would (perhaps naively) have expected the meter to read zero watts when everything was off, not 35w

[UlsterRugby1999]

Sorry powerdesal - I dont know in short. Thats what it was reading when I had unplugged everything and it started from there when I switched on the kettle.

[Anton Redman]

A French digital meter will cycle through a range of reading, when you press a button, including Kwatthours since it was installed, current power consumption, and Kwatthours since it was last read. There are more functions if you have HC enabled.  105 watt hours in three minutes = 2100 watthours in an hour is about right for a UK purchased electric kettle.

I would check every circuit in the same way then check the results using a spreadsheet to see if the actual consumption in a day made sense.

[powerdesal]

Whilst the 105 watt hr in 3 mins is not an unusual figure I am still bothered by the base line start point of 35w. If this is a 'current' power consumption when there is ostensibly no demand then something is amiss, surely it must be zero as it patently can't be consumption since installed or consumption since last read.

Cycling the reading with everything off should, at some point, give a zero reading if there truly is no demand. I think there is a problem, but what it is...........?

[Anton Redman]

Almost impossible to explain without the meter in front of you.  On a UK meter you have a disk which revolves as power is used, it goes faster when more power it being used and stops when no power is being used. This in turn drives analogue dials which rotate slowly as power is used.

On a modern French meter there is a digital display and a button which you press from memory ::

1. Reading is kilowatts currently being used

2. Reading is watt hours since reading was last cleared 

3. Reading is Kilowatt hours since meter was installed.

[Le Plombier]

Seeing that your lot beat us yesterday you had better not start on your water meter!

Le Plombier

[UlsterRugby1999]

Thats a shocking thing to say Le Plombier [;-)]

powerdesal - maybe its because I didnt shut down the system. I simply went around the house and unplugged everything, therefore, the meter was running ordinarily and then I reduced the loading. Just a thought.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]

Thats a shocking thing to say Le Plombier [;-)]

powerdesal - maybe its because I didnt shut down the system. I simply went around the house and unplugged everything, therefore, the meter was running ordinarily and then I reduced the loading. Just a thought.

[/quote]

Yes you did, so why did it stop at 35 ??????? That's what is confusing me, zero load is zero load. Its analogous to the disc in an old fashioned meter stopping dead, not slowly creeping.

I would re test. Select all the mcbs to off. If the meter reads zero, unplug all load circuits then select each mcb in turn until the meter starts to read, if it does then that circuit still has a demand plugged in somewhere. If of course the meter reads when all mcbs are off then there is a rogue demand from somewhere.

[Maricopa]

For powerdesal

Please permit me to try to unravel your confusion

The reading that UlsterRugby1999 is refering to is (I believe) the total usage ie the present reading with no load read 32W and stayed there. With the kettle on ther reading rose at 35W per minute, and after 3 minutes switched itself off, using a total of 105W, which then added to the inital steady reading gives a total of 137W.

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]Everything turned off at sockets etc and nothing plugged in at all. When I went to meter the counter was at 32w. It stayed there and didnt move until I plugged in a kettle to boil 1 ltr water. The counter started to increase in number and after 1 minute of use, for the kettle alone, had increased by 35w. It took 3 minutes to boil the kettle and the counter stopped dead at 137w. So it remained constant at 35w per minute for the kettle.[/quote]

So the 32W wasn't a reading of live usage, but usage up to that point.  With no load the reading did not increase.

I hope this clears it up for you.