Taxed in Uk....Living in France

[chomleigh]

I have just moved to the Gers after retiring from the Police in the UK. I receive a penion and it is taxed at source in the UK. I intend to remain in France as my girls now attend school here. I did ask why I should be taxed at source in the Uk, whilst I was Living in France, before I left the UK. I was not and still have not received a satisfactory answer. There must be other French residents like me who have this type of pension. The best answer I received from an allegedly reputable financial adviser was "Well, it's a Goverment thing and there is not a lot you can do about it" Not even my former employers were able to answer the question. Is there anybody out there who could shed some light on the subject please. I am trying to avoid a visit to the European Court of Human Rights !!!!!

[martinetchris]

According to PKF Guernsey's "Taxation in France" book (buy it if you haven't already done so : http://www.pkfguernsey.com/) - page 259 of the 2001 edition states :

"Under Article 18 of the France - UK double income tax treaty, the right to tax pensions (other than pensions paid in respect of government service) is given to the country of residence of the taxpayer ... a pension in respect of government service is taxable only in the country of source, and therefore a former resident of the UK who retires to France will continue to pay UK tax on his (sic) pension for UK government service."

I guess (but don't know - I'm no pension/taxation expert !) - that a police pension is therefore classed as arising from "government service".

I strongly recommend getting the PKF book (covers all taxation issues you will face, not just pension) - it's an excellent example of the need to ask the experts !

best wishes

Chris and Martin

By the way - if anyone reading this knows whether an NHS pension is classed as "arising from government service", please can you let me know !

Secondly, if one is forced to transfer one's pension fund from the NHS scheme to a personal pension plan (in order to safeguard the interests of one's gay partner of 20 years standing who under the NHS pension scheme, in the event of one's death a week after leaving the NHS, wouldn't receive one penny from one's pension fund, unlike a married partner of 2 days standing ...), does that personal pension then count as "arising from government service" ?. I suspect not.

[Soleil]

Another expat exbobby.
The answer which I was given by UK tax authorities was that police pensions do not come under any double taxation agreement but are universally treated as government pensions which means that they are taxed in the UK without choice. He also advised me to tell the french tax authorities and said that if I was taxed twice then I would be given a refund. Mr UK Tax also told me that the only way to avoid having my pension taxed in the UK was to become a Frenchman.
I am still an Englishman and still paying tax in UK. I took the advice and contacted the local tax office here (26), and I know this is going to start a fuss, but Mr French Tax said he didn't want to know me and I needed even fill in a tax return to get a negative bill.
I hope this helps;
Jeff

[JeanClaude]

I am not sure if this is going to help............I just think it will add to the earlier threads.

My wife and I retired early on ill-health grounds last year. We have non-governmental pensions from our previous employers. In one case a major Plc the other private.

We are told that if we make an application to the Tax guys here then they will consider it, and if appropriate will issue a notice to the Trustees of the pension scheme(s) whereby tax is not deducted in the UK and thus paid gross into France.

We still live in the UK so not pressing at the moment. But your note has just struck a chord in that my best mate is a DCI, and head of CID training at a certain Police Force in the UK. He is retiring next year, and thought that his pension would be paid gross as he is moving to France.

[Jean L Ecossais]

LAST EDITED ON 12-Nov-02 AT 00:07 AM (GMT)

I am in the same position I have already checked with inland revenue Police pension is classed as a government pension so is taxed in the UK,same as civil service and armed forces You cannot get out of it unfortunatly however if you find a way please let me know.

[chomleigh]

Thank you to all of you who replied. I have read the threads with great interest. I still feel there is some mileage in this. I have two young children and as such my initial enquiries reveal there may well be a tax benefit attached (Sorry Kids, I love you really). If I paid tax at source in France on my UK pension, then I assume I would be entitled to all services currently on offer to a French resident. I am not looking to spark a massive debate here and as such will heed the advice of one of the replies and obtain the relevant tax publication to read. Clearly the whole purpose for pursuing this enquiry is for financial gain. Something which all UK tax payers over the years would aspire to. As more and more dissolutioned Brits move abroad the need for a review of this outdated legislation would seem wholly appropriate. Who was it who once said "Out of little acorns............"? (I will now get off my soap box)