Habitable Space

[Lynn2]

Hi everyone

Can anybody tell me if it should have been mentioned at the Notaires office when signing for our houses, about how much m2 of habitable space we have in each house? On the paper work it is noted down has two houses with workshop at back in a very bad state of repair. The houses are in Dept 16 Nr St. Junien.

The reason why I ask is - we purchased these buildings with the hope of making them back to 2 houses and making extra bedrooms and living rooms out of the workshop (this workshop is accessable only from the inside of the house). I did mention to the estate agent prior to us signing that we should put a clause in the contract stating if we couldn't make them into habitable rooms that we could pull out (it's too late now as we own them). Our estate agent said we would not need permission to make more habitable space and didn't need to put a clause in.

Since reading a message day before yesterday on the forum regarding only being allowed a certain m2 of habitable space I am now beginning to panic as I have arranged for a electrician and plumber to start making 2 kitchens and 2 bathrooms beginning of April.

Hope somebody will be able to enlighten me on this subject.

Regards Lynn

[A_Redman]

The various parts of France have a ratio which is the maximum amount of square metres of floor space which is allowed for a new building. When the permis durbanisation of permis de construire is granted for new builds the areas will be declared and any extensions or conversion of existing space must remain within that limit. This is not too different to the idea of permitted developments rights in UK and stops high rise blocks springing up in for instance Juan les Pines. I believe the ratios vary down to below commune level and parts of Paris are designated at well over 2 times land area.

If the house is an established dwelling which predates the law I do not think there is a problem in its current state. How did the Acte or compris de vente, as opposed to the estate agents blurb, describe the properties ?. If it simply describes them as two houses you probably do not have a problem I could not find the date when P d U were introduced in France but think it is post 1945.

If on the other hand you are bringing into use an area that could never have been used as accommodation and the total area after conversion exceeds (750 sq metres ? ?) then you should be applying for a Permis de Construire. This will require architects drawings.

If you are opening new windows or doors, as opposed to replacing existing doors then you will need a second less expensive form of permission for building works not involving a permis de construire. This does involve a forming French and illustration of before and after. The rules about windows opening onto agricultural land and neighbours rights to privacy are different to UK but if you over look 3 metres of your own land or the road there is not normally a problem.

If it were me I would have a walk round the neighbourhood and decide whether or not the change would stick out like a sore thumb. I all you are doing is tidying up an existing building I would go ahead. If you are clearly making major changes I would at least check out the rules in more detail or casually ask the mayor. Three links below should take you to the forms you need which should help you decide what you want.

http://www.ville-taverny.fr/Urbanism/urba3.htm

http://www.cerfa.gouv.fr/

http://www.equipement.gouv.fr/formulaires/formfiche.asp?IdFormulaire=43&NumFormulaire=10073

Not sure where exactly you are versus Presignac / Chez Babadus but when I was down at New Year neither the French registered but English builder or the guy who owns the Builders yard in Varyes said that anything about the rules being more tightly applied. They did mention that Barn Conversion permission is getting harder to obtain with things that went through on a few photos with windows and doors drawn on now needing real architects plans.

[Will]

Thanks for the info and the offer. We go back to England every few weeks so I'll certainly make a point of getting some oats from both Tesco and Sainsbury.

Will (50)