chris pp Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Canelle. 1st Nov.05On this date last year the last indigenous female brown French bear was killed near d'Urdos, vallée d'Aspe (Pyrénées-Atlantiques) in a "hunting accident" . After the death of Canelle four males are left in the area, one is the orphan of Canelle. The introduction of 5 new bears, from eastern Europe is now set for 2006 , this was to have been 2005 but due to opposition from the farmers it is still uncertain if this release will go ahead. Can we make a space in todays modern French world for creatures like Canelle or are they only to be viewed in zoos? I know what I think!!!! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I'd *love* to live in a location where there was a chance I'd see a bear - or a lynx or (elsewhere) a wolf in the wild. Thrilling. I hope Canelle's orphan has a long and quality life.But. The populated world has changed since the larger wilder animals roamed Europe. More people, more farming, less appropriate wilderness. And, the biggie (I think): man is becoming a more urban animal and the prospect of a bear sniffing around a remote campsite, the idea of a bear in the dark - is seriously worrying. Why are they being reintroduced? Is there a natural reason? For me, as I said, I'd be thrilled. I think that might be a minority (even a romantic) view in a "bear reintroduction area". Perhaps education is the way forward. Dunno. It's quite a complex subject I think without easy answers. I don't think zoos are necessarily the way forward either but a different sort of zoo - with large areas of land available and big budgets... well, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcazar Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Did anyone else see the pics recently of the bear that attacked the park ranger in Alaska?When he killed it, it had the remains of TWO humans still in it's gut! They'ver found one, but the other is still missingAlcazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berger Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Not knowing the full facts of this case, but with knowledge of the shameless anihlation of numerous species throughout the world because of the greed of man , it seems to me that this is another case of man's complete disregard for the world he lives in.There are large numbers of truly important , magnificent animals in their own environments that are being irradicated through the quest of man for more urbanism and wealth, some may say man is the top predator and deserves to fulfill his potential but at what cost? the majority of species use what they need and take enough to survive, unfortunately those in power do nothing to divert the course that our wildlife, our planet is taking, no matter how many summits they have, committees they gather, conservationists and naturalists of this world are screaming to all that the natural world we are privileged to live in is dying and the end to many species is imminent, but little is ever done.I feel every time i see the animals of this world in zoos, this will be the only place that my future generation will see them, zoos have a place now in that it seems the only place that headway can be made and species reproduction can be continued even on a tiny scale, is inside those walls, too many species are suffering.Studies are done to tell us whats going wrong, even when we get the answers what really do we do? monty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Here's a BBC link I just found from the 2nd Nov. 04http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3975525.stm Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Canelle's unfortunate demise was discussed on the forum when it happened. The search function functioned and delivered...http://forums.livingfrance.com/shwmessage.aspx?forumid=296&messageid=121819#bm121927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 So finally the Slovenian bears are about to be captured and transfered to their new homes in Midi Pyrenées. The five bears capture, four females and one male, has been delayed due to the long, hard winter in Slovenia, but now it seems that the green light has been given to go ahead even though there have been protests by a few locals.Now we wait and see, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Now we wait and see...They would surely be far safer not in a zoo, but in some enormous park, where they could live happily in a sort of natural state, but without the dangers of the modern world. They need to be protected, it would be marvellous if they could live freely, but is it possible? I hope nothing happens to them, but how many examples are needed... before this is stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 Arguably that's exactly where they will be, in some sort of enormous natural park. Generally I'm happy to go along with a bit of give and take, but I'm afraid that where humans are concerned it's becoming all take and no give. There is no great danger posed by these bears either to climbers, mountain walkers or to a handful of sheep that may be eaten, not the bears first choice! I understand there is a dog, someone will no doubt tell me the breed, that can be used to keep the bears away from the sheep, any losses of sheep are compensated anyway. No one seems to concerned about the quantity of meat that is used for dog and cat food, so what is the problem in allowing a certain number of sheep or lambs to be bear food, other than the fact that it isn't nicely sanitised in a can or cellophane wrapped.Close on 50 people have died this season in France from avalanches, most of them chose where to be for pleasure and died as a result. How many people have been killed by bears in the whole of Europe in the last year?Either we learn to share this planet or our children and grandchildren will live in a greatly impoverished world.Here ends my Easter message, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Chris, could the dog you mean be the Berger d'Anatolie, they are quite exceptional :http://perso.wanadoo.fr/berger.anatolie/bergeroukangal.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 Thanks for that Christine, I think it may well be, I seem to remember seeing them a long time ago in another lifetime in central and eastern Turkey. If it's the same dog, they use them to guard sheep and villages.As you say, exceptional.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted April 22, 2006 Author Share Posted April 22, 2006 It seems this is the type of dog which will be used.A Great Pyrenees on duty Originally from Tibet, "le patou" is not a herd dog; its role is to guard flocks of sheep.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Yes, why go all the way to Anatolie when there is the good old Montagne des Pyrénées! I had heard of "Le Patou" and thought it was very similar to the Montagne des Pyrénées, when in fact it seems it is just another name for the same dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfgraveston Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Lat summer I had a fantastic day walking in the Pyrenees and saw 3 marmottes, 5 isards, and enormous vulture and a bear. Later in the day I met a sheperdess who said she'd seen a bear in the same spot 2 weeks previously. It was just below the Etang de Laurenti near Querigut and Mijanes - I was on my way to climbing the Roc Blanc. Magnificent countryside and the best day of my life in the mountains. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 [quote user="chris pp"]So finally the Slovenian bears are about to be captured and transfered to their new homes in Midi Pyrenées. The five bears capture, four females and one male, has been delayed due to the long, hard winter in Slovenia, but now it seems that the green light has been given to go ahead even though there have been protests by a few locals.Now we wait and see, Chris[/quote] Maybe its “old news” but seems the transfer is going ahead: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4931838.stm Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 12 pots of honey with broken glass in them marked "poison for bears" have been found where the bears have been released. Nice way to behave.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted May 6, 2006 Author Share Posted May 6, 2006 So, now the release of the other 3 bears has been suspended pending a decision by le Conseil d’Etat due to the threatened aggression and pathetic outbursts from the anti-ours brigade.It will be interesting to see if once again a weak and feeble government in France succumbs to threats.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 An article on this in The Times online editionhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-2177874,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 The links not working for me Dick, but the good news was that the anti-bear people were over ruled, although they now say that they will take it to the Court of Human Rights, be a bit late by the time that they deal with it!Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I don't know if you saw about it on "30 Millions d'Amis" last Sunday Chris, they mentioned the pots of honey. I'm never good at remembering figures, so correct me if I am wrong, but I think it was said that bears account for only 1% of sheep deaths. Their diet is 90% vegetarian. But as the shepherds are reimbursed if a bear kills a sheep, they are now asking to be reimbursed for all sheep found dead!One long haired shepherd with a scraggy Patou said he didn't mind the presence of the bears. It was also said that they have never known one of these little bears to attack man.I was worried about their future in the Pyrénées, but apparently where they come from they would have been hunted anyway. They were protected, but now that there are so many, they are allowed to hunt them. Goes back to my case of numbers, and not respect of the actual animal.Can't get your link either Dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 I think that the situation in Slovenia is to maintain a population of 500 to 700 bears and permission or permits are issued to hunt and kill a certain number of bears each year, this year it's a 100 or there abouts, BUT the Slovenian authorities will not allow the live export of any bears for hunting purposes.I know that we differ on this a bit Christine, but I can live with population control and regulation of some species as long as it is properly regulated and all sides have representation at "the table", whether it should be for enjoyment is another matter. The bears are not a danger in any way and it seems have not been recorded to have attacked people in Europe. Compensation is always there for any stock that are killed by Bears or Wolves in France, but of course this is wide open to abuse and any deaths will always be blamed on them.Have you heard about the International Badger Hunting / Festival / Competition this year in France?Ah well, so it goes on, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted August 28, 2006 Author Share Posted August 28, 2006 So, finally the fifth bear has been released, a female named Sarousse weighing 112 kilos.Sadly, one of the other bears released earlier this year, Palouma, was found dead the day following the release of Sarousse, having apparently fallen down some steep rocks, the body has been sent to Toulouse for an autopsy report.Le cinquième lâcher permet d’assurer, comme cela en était l’objectif premier, la pérennité d’une espèce protégée au niveau international (comme le stipule notamment la Convention de Berne), et dont la survie était, à court terme, menacée sur notre territoire. Nelly Olin. Except that now, there are only four. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Apparently the person who killed Canelle has got away with it and will not be judgedCannelle : non-lieu pour le chasseur But there is now a baby bear on the Spanish sideDes oursons dans les Pyrénées ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Franska has been killed by a car, apparently she was responsible for the death of nearly 150 sheep.Pyrénées: l'ourse Franska tuée accidentellement par une voiture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 ""apparently she was responsible for the death of nearly 150 sheep"" That, of course, is not proven by any objective means and is only the word of some shepherds.L'ourse Franska, amenée de Slovénie en France dans lecadre de la réintroduction de l'ours brun dans les Pyrénées, a été tuéejeudi matin par une voiture près de Lourdes, apprend-on auprès de lagendarmerie. "L'ourse Franska est décédée ce matin à 06h30 sur la voie rapideproche de la commune de Vigère, près de Lourdes", a précisé à Reuters unporte-parole. L'accident s'est passé dans une partie dégagée de la route.Visiblement, a-t-il précisé.That's life, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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