Putting nouns and adjectives in the right order

[bakerino]

Hi

I was taught today by my Prof to remember the 13 verbs that go with Etre by this 

 

DRAPERS VAN  ( MMT 13)  THIS IS THE NUMBER PLATE OR MRS VAN DE TRAMP

 

Also that the perfect tense   (Passe compose) is a completed action in the past, something that has happened. All bar three can be paired up as

 

to go/to come

to arrive/to leave

to go in/go out

 

to go up/go down

to be born/to die

 

and finally

 

to stay

to fall

to return

[hastobe]

[quote user="Loiseau"]

For the verbs conjugated with être I seem to remember learning them as opposites (naitre/mourir, monter/descendre, venir/partir etc - though I don't think that works for all, does it?  Also recall being told that they were all verbs of movement (don't know about "devenir" though).

[/quote]

That's how I learned them too - but I will share Dr & Mrs Vandertramp with my kids :)

Kathie

[Ronan]

Spoke to my partner about the whole issue of before or after and he thinks my idea that "il habite une petite maison" and "il habite une maison petite" have slightly different meaning rather strange. Maybe it's all in my head and I'm loosing my French ;-)

I would have said "il habite une maison petite" meaning that is house is especially small while "il habite une petite maison" would just mean that he lives in a small house. mmmh... Maybe... ;-)

He however referred me to my bible of grammar: my beloved Becherel (Volume 3: Grammaire) where chapter B5 "Place de l'adjectif épithète" in the "Adjectif" section has the following to say:

Some adjective HAVE to be after (the ones denoting a relationship: solaire, aérien, catholique). Some are normally before (often short and common adjectives like petite) and some can be either before or after which can bring either a change of meaning (un curieux enfant/un enfant curieux) or a change of emphasis on the quality expressed by the adjective (une maison somptueuse/une somptueuse maison).

And it's the latter that I would have put my maison petite/petite maison. But maybe that's too subtle or even downright incorrect!

So all, in all, I'd say, go with the flow, people are unlikely not to understand you or even raise the eyebrow if your adjectives are sometime out of place.

[Fay]

The mnemonic I've been given for adjectives before the noun is BAGS:

Beauty

Age

Good (and bad)

Size

Not strictly adjectives but you could add Numbers to this (BANGS?!).

There are some adjectives that are considered 'qualities' of the noun, eg:

mes sincere condoleances

les vagues promesses.

Lots of cases similar to 'un homme grand'/un grand homme', eg:

Un voisin curieux (a nosy neighbour)

Un curieux voisin (a bizarre neighbour)

... I expect we've all encountered both (sometimes in the same person! Oh sorry, this one just mentioned by Ronan)

Une femme seule (woman with no friends)

Une seule femme (just the one woman).

For the Etre verbs, my tutor gave me a little drawing of a climber arriving at the foot of a mountain, climbing it, going into, staying in and then coming out of a little hut on top, etc, etc - laborious to describe but it sticks very effectively in the mind (especially the gravestone at the bottom for the born and died bit!). All the verbs 'composed' of the 14* get the same treatment (eg revenir, rentrer).

* My coursework book says 14 not 13- which is the extra one? Passer?