savoir and connaitre

[Patf]

Two words which mean " know" in one sense or another. Can someone give

examples of each ? What are the nuances of meaning? thanks - Pat.

[DZ]

I would warmly recommend www.french.about.com to you - it has brilliant explanations of all aspects of the French grammar and vocabulary.  For example, on savoir and connaitre: Savoir means to know a fact by heart how to do something Connaître means to know (someone) to be familiar with (someone or something) and so it goes on, with many examples of usage.

[daryl-et-elaine]

[quote user="davieszak"]

I would warmly recommend www.french.about.com

[/quote]

The site is currently running a quiz called "Are You a Francophile?". One question asks "Do you argue with people who claim the French are rude?"

Considering 'About.com' is an American site, I think the question should read "Q: Do you argue with people who claim the French are ruder than Americans?" [:D][:D]

[Patf]

Thanks for the reference - very helpful. I should study more. Pat.

[Prof de francais]

Just a quick teacher's tip for mastery-learning pairs of words such as these.

First of all, read about and absorb how the words are used, as in the second post, so you have an intellectual knowledge of what distinguishes one usage from the other.

Then, make (or find in a grammar book or dictionary - Collins Robert or Oxford are good for this - i.e. dictionaries that offer an extensive range of examples, not just the one word transaltions of pocket dictionaries) several sentences that illustrate EACH major point of usage.

Learn them until they stick - flash cards are good for this.

Then, finally, seek opportunities to use them in conversation, so by then they should be yours, and you should be able to produce them instinctively and correctly whenever you need to. 

Some language teachers will disagree with this approach, saying you just need to learn each word in context without having to have that intellectual (grammatical - there! I said it! The 'G' word that causes so much contention in language education!) awareness, as it gets in the way, according to them. I feel this is a BIG mistake, because it is the theorietical awareness that helps you to understand the nuances of the languages, that will, in the long run, influence how well you are able to communicate on more than just everyday issues. 

Hope that helped. Languages are my passion. 

[Chas]

A French friend gave us this as ageneral rule :-

Connaitre quelqu'un and savoir quelque chose

[Christine Animal]

It is very difficult to explain... it seems you can connaître someone, somewhere or something (direct) :

Je connais Marcel, je connais Paris, je connais la chanson, le résultat, l'odeur, etc.

and savoir is to know about something :

je sais cuisiner, je sais comment le faire, etc.

 

Je connais Marcel  (I know Marcel) direct

but, Je sais qui est Marcel (I know who Marcel is).

 

Je connais la chanson (I know the song)

Je sais comment chanter la chanson (I know how to sing the song).

 

In the second post above it says that savoir is to know something by heart.  I would have said "je le connais par coeur", not "je le sais par coeur" (but maybe I'm wrong? [8-)]).

 

It is complicated...

 

[Prof de francais]

I agree - it is complicated. But you can say, 'Je le connais par coeur'. It's one of those features of language where you have the rule, then you have the little nuances that seem to defy the rule. It can also mean, of a person, 'I know him completely/I know him like I know myself'.

[Graye]

My dear old French teacher Mr Oldham used to tell us this trick :

savoir is something you know for a fact or have learnt

connaitre is something/someone you are acquainted with

Having learned Spanish the hard way (ie having to because we live there) I have discovered they have saber (not so different as bs and vs are pronounced the same in Spanish) and conocer which are used in exactly that way.

I'm sure there are lots of little nuances which disprove his rule but I think for general use it works.  Now as for the two Spanish verbs for "to be" (ser and estar) now that is a whole different ball game and I still mix them up. One is a verb of state and the other of situation, but then not always apparently...

[Pangur]

The rule of thumb we were taught is that connaitre is generally used with nouns/pronouns while savoir is used with verbs.

'Je le connais par coeur' - connaitre is used as you've just replaced the noun with a pronoun (le).  Je sais nager because nager is a verb. 

I think the "to know something by heart" refers to the fact that savoir is used with things you know almost instinctively (like how to walk or read, ie verbs) rather than refering to a literal translation of the phrase.

[Christine Animal]

Yes, I think that's it Pangur...  [:)]