Bringing a sailing boat to Brittany

[Chuck]

I have an 8 meter sailing boat, currently laid up in U.K. I would like to bring it over to where I now live in the Brittany area. It is some 5 years since I have sailed and currently have no formal qualifications, although I have sailed a lot around the east coast of U.K. Can anyone tell me what is required ? For example, do I need to obtain French registration, do I need to obtain some form of qualification, etc. Finally any ideas as to how difficult it is to get permanent moorings in my area.

[Will]

This being France, there are registration requirements and skipper qualification even for pleasure craft. 8m isn't very big, so that may ease the process. The best people to advise would probably be the Royal Yachting Association. You shouldn't have much difficulty finding a mooring, though Brittany's west coast is a very popular boating area.

Will (50)
Forum moderator

[Normy]

HI, SIMILAR QUERY, BUT WITH A MOTOR BOAT.

 

UNDERSTAND THAT YOU NEED SOME SORT OF QUALIFICATION WITH A MOTOR OF OVER 5 HP, HOW DO YOU GET ONE IN FRANCE, I AM IN CHARENTE MARITIME.

HAS ANYBODY TAKEN A FRENCH PERMIT COURSE FOR THIS?

DO YOU NEED TO BE FLUENT IN THE TECHNO SPEAK ALSO?

ANY HELP GREATLY RECIEVED.

 

THANKS. NORMY 

[Richardk]

Hi Chuck  -  we went through the very same process as you last year.  France does have a whole series of regulations for registered boats, and hence the easiest way to keep you boat here is not to register it in France! 

That sounds illegal so let me explain.  You should register your yacht with the Small Ships Register in the UK which is a fairly simple process involving someone coming out and making a few measurements (dimensions, weight etc...) - the boat can be out of the water for this (ours was). You do not need to live in the UK to obtain these papers, just to be a UK citizen.

If you do not have any RYA qualifications (Day Skipper theory and Practical as a minimum) go and get your ICC (International Certificate of Competence). If you're not sure where to find an RYA registered sailing school take a look at either the (rather slow) RYA site, or www.marsbrookboating.com. There is even a school in Brittany; hence this could be really simple for you.

If you were then to be stopped by a French patrol or whatever, you are completely covered as you will have ships papers proving the ownership of the yacht and suitable qualifications to keep the authorities happy (you are required to have the ICC or better by both French and Spanish authorities, and possibly Portuguese).

Going down this route makes life extremely easy going forward.

Good luck,

Richard

[Mpprh]

Hi

I have a boat registered in France.

I had to research the permis question myself.

For small boats (up to about 15m) you do not need a permit if the principal means of propulsion is by sail. As you might expect, the French have devised a formula to decide what is the principal means of propulsion. The formula calculates an index and includes length, weight, beam, draft, sail area and engine bhp. Mine fitted well within the index. This only applies to the sea, not inland waterways (and I don't know about tidal estuaries !).

Here is the formula :

Attention un navire à voile équipé d'un moteur ne reste pas toujours dans la catégorie des voiliers ( donc sans permis ) :

Il convient d'appliquer la même formule que celle utilisée en matière de sécurité (circulaire du 12 février 1993. )

Si on considère que : " S " est la surface totale de la voilure, en mètres carrés ; " L " la longueur de la coque, en mètres ; " D " le déplacement, lège et réservoirs vides, en tonnes ; " P " la puissance totale du ou des moteurs, en kilowatts, un navire est considéré comme un voilier si le quotient :

S / v ( LxD ) supérieur ou égal à 5,5

et si le quotient ( P x 1,36) / D < 9

However for power boats over (I think) 6hp you need a permis. There are lots of schools offering this around marinas, and even my local driving school advertises it.

The registration in France is complex, and depending on the age of your boat could be expensive. It also prescribes a lot of equipment you must carry, and how far offshore you can go.

Judging by the number of red ensigns in local marinas, there isn't too much problem in retaining UK registration (I'm in the Med so these are not day trippers).

I don't know all the details yet, but the requirements will be relaxed from 1 January 2005 to harmonise with common EU rules. This is good news : I'll get another few years out of my liferaft and when I do replace it, I can buy a 4man rather than a 6man.

Bonne chance

Peter

[Richardk]

On Peter's point of his suspecting there isn't too much trouble retaining UK registration, you'll find if you do go down the route of the Small Ships Register that is caters very effectively for UK citizens who are non-UK resident.  Our postal address for all SSR correspondance is to our home address here in France...all above board, and no problem.

Richard

[jamesg]

On a slightly different subject, the french customs pay regular visits to yacht harbours looking for U.K. and other registered yachts whose owners are residents. They were asking if you have a carte de sejour but no doubt they now have another definition of a resident.

French regisred yachts are required to pay a substantial annual tax and there is also a charge of the same amount under another name for resident owners of foreign flag vessels.

[Mpprh]

Hi

From memory my annual registration tax was about Euro 60. I'm French registered.

Peter

 

 

[jamesg]

Hi

From Peter's figure I would guess the boat is about 8 metres and 10 to 20 years old, or maybe newer and slightly smaller.

This tax rises with tonnage and engine size and for a 10M sailboat with 20 HP motor was just over 250 euros in 2003.

The tax of the same amount for foreign reg boats with resident owners or users is called "un droit annuel de passeport". Boats with flags of convenience are surcharged 3 or 5 times the amount.

Presumably this name comes from the old "Passeport du Navire Etranger" which was known as the green card. I have the first one issued to me at Menton Garavan in June 1970 and stamped out at L'Aberwrach in September.

If you wanted to leave your boat in France she could stay without duties as long as you handed this in to the duanes. In fact people used to stay on board without dificulties after handing in the card.

James

[Mpprh]

Hi

It is for 10.5m, 28hp & 15 years old.

Bit of a puzzle. I'll look at the papers next time I'm aboard.

Peter