B&B Micro Enterprises

[Quillan]

Sorry about this but I have been working through the Micro Enterprise threads and am totally confused so I wondered if anybody can tell be which points are correct.

1) A Micro Bic is also referred to as a Micro Enterprise, they are one and the same?

2) Two figures have been quoted 76300 and 76000 the latter is made up of 49000 for materials and 27000 for labour. The first figure (76300) was given as a maximum for B&Bs and I can only assume that 300 variance is probably a typo error. Now if this is correct then a turnover of 76000 is amazing for any B&B but I cant see that there will be 49000 of materials involved. To cut to the bone are we really talking 27000 max for B&Bs?

3) In another posting (in fact several) cotisations are mentioned, in the case of a B&B what exactly are they (Social security or/and what)?

4) One posting indicated that the cotisations will be 48% of turnover whilst another says about 2000. The first figure indicated that you pay nearly 50% of your turnover (not profit) straight away to a government agency (CMU?). Being that this system is aimed at small businesss it seems a bit steep. Is there a percentage and what is it (I have heard of a flat figure of 2500 mentioned whatever the turnover)?

5) I also read that the cotisations increase year by year even if your turnover stays exactly the same? Could you therefore end up working for nothing?

6) In another posting it said you dont pay anything on the first 50% of your turnover which seems to contradict the 48% mentioned in 4 above.

7) There must be a formula for all this somewhere so can somebody tell me what the maximum earnings allowed for B&B is as a Micro Enterprise and use that figure as an example and show the percentages and how the figures work out.

8) Are the same regulations/restrictions country wide or do they differ from one department to another?

Please dont refer me to any French websites because I am ashamed to say my French is not up to that sort of level (but I am taking lessons) and I am sure I am not alone and this information might make it clearer for others.

Many thanks in advance.

Q

PS I found this information by doing a search here using Micro Enterprise as the key words.

[Jp1]

Hi Q,

>Sorry about this but I have
>been working through the Micro
>Enterprise threads and am totally
>confused so I wondered if
>anybody can tell be which
>points are correct.
>
>1) A Micro Bic is also
>referred to as a Micro
>Enterprise, they are one and
>the same?
A Micro Enterprise is a small business.
Micro Bic stands for Regime Micro Benefices Industriels et Commerciaux - it is the title of the regime under which a micro entreprise may be taxed.


>
>2) Two figures have been quoted
>76300 and 76000 the latter
>is made up of 49000
>for materials and 27000 for
>labour. The first figure (76300)
>was given as a maximum
>for B&Bs and I can
>only assume that 300 variance
>is probably a typo error.
>Now if this is correct
>then a turnover of 76000
>is amazing for any B&B
>but I cant see that
>there will be 49000 of
>materials involved. To cut to
>the bone are we really
>talking 27000 max for B&Bs?


I am assuming that the B&B is your main source of income i.e. it produces in excess of 50% of your total earned income. If this is the case, and the turnover of your B&B is below 76300 per year, then you may opt to be taxed under the microbic regime. For a B&B, this regime is excellent as it is simple - does not require assistance from an accountant, and seems to be beneficial to the tax payer. Microbic can be used for any micro enterprise, hence the allowance of 76300 (which as you say is very high for a B&B, but not for other activities).The revenue from your B&B is the total takings from offering food and accommodation - there is no need to differentiate between materials and labour - just calculate the one total to give you the turnover.
So, having calculated the turnover, the tax regime then allows you 72% of this figure to be the expenses. On your tax return, you quote the turnover, and the tax office will subtract the 72% and come up with the taxable income.
e.g. turnover for year 20000
less 72% for expenses 14400
taxable income 5600
This means that you don't have to keep any recepits for expenses as they are irrelevant. You must keep numbered invoices or receipts though.
If you have a second business (which must be a commercial activity) which is providing a lower taxable income than your B&B, you can remain under the microbic regime so long as the turnover from the second business is below 27000. For this second activity, the regime gives you an expenses allowance of 52%, i.e. your taxable income is 48% of the turnover. (its not quite this simple, so let us know if it applies to you.)
(If either spouse has a job which produces earned income making the B&B your second income, then microbic may not be suitable - you should discuss this with the tax office.- let me know if this is the case, and I'll give you more info)


>
>
>3) In another posting (in fact
>several) cotisations are mentioned, in
>the case of a B&B
>what exactly are they (Social
>security or/and what)?

They are obligatory payments which cover the equivalent of UK National Insrance - the 3 which must be paid are
URSSAF - Social security payments
Caisse Organic - retirement fund
Health cover - these payments are made to an insurance company of your choice. When you register your B&B at the chambre de commerce, you will be asked to select an insurance company from a list that they will show you. (We chose the company that had an office closest to our home)

>
>4) One posting indicated that the
>cotisations will be 48% of
>turnover whilst another says about
>2000. The first figure indicated
>that you pay nearly 50%
>of your turnover (not profit)
>straight away to a government
>agency (CMU?). Being that this
>system is aimed at small
>businesss it seems a bit
>steep. Is there a percentage
>and what is it (I
>have heard of a flat
>figure of 2500 mentioned whatever
>the turnover)?

My understanding is that for the retirement fund and health cover, you must pay whatever your taxable income is. There are minimum contributions, so if your taxable income is very small, you will still find that you get a bill from these companies. With URSAF, your taxable income does have to be over a certain level, before you start paying. (In practice though, for the first year, all three companies will estimate what your taxable income will be for the year and you must pay cotisations on this estimated figure - at the end of the year when you do your tax return, you will get a refund if you have overpaid. This does mean a big cash outlay in year 1 and can screw up the cash flow.)
So,

[Quillan]

I was going to put this in the Legal bit but I then remembered I started this thread so I thought it might be better to keep the info all together.

We have today completed our final task, sort the Tax. I took a translator with me plus a list of questions carefully crafted to get the best response for the Taxman. Well the guy could not have been more helpful.

Firstly he told us there is no longer anything called a Regime Micro Benefices Industriels et Commerciaux with regards to our business (Chambres DHote and Gites), its now called a Micro Fiscal but the rules are somewhat the same except that the limit ONLY for B&Bs (Chambres DHote and Gites) is 27,000 and that you cant add the 49,000 for materials as they know you dont have any because of the nature of your business.

We got the 72% taken off but he did include my UK Share Dividend Certificates as UK earnings and gave me the tax back before working out the final tax figure which was ZERO (whoopee). I do have to pay TVG (I think thats what its called) but that is only 208. He even filled the forms in. He gave us another form (printed from his computer) to take to the Chambres of Commerce that shows we dont have to pay Social Charges, we will wait and see on that one although Peter Owen did mention something about this last year but I cant find it now.

So I am really happy, I am now perfectly legal all round and its been rather painless.

So thanks to all of you who gave me the information below, thanks to my translator and thanks to Miki who I got a lot of common sense from off Forum and hope is making a speedy recovery.

To any newcomer if you read this thread you wont go far wrong, it worked for me.

Chris

[Alex Duncan]

I am having the same problem - what is my SS going to come to when I declare X revenue under micro bic... ? does someone know? Called URSAF but I am afraid that they must have fallen short on their daily quota of bananas - typical useless French admin responses that were totally uninformative. I just want a simple calculation that I can use to estimate the damages... Can someone help?