New Pool Advice, please.

[wills99]

Hello

We have decided to have a 10 meter by 5 meter pool built in our garden.

This is our family holiday home near Hesdin in Nord pas de Calais. After a bit of research this is more complicated than we envisaged.

Is there an ideal set up?

We are thinking :-

      A block and liner pool with a deep end of approx 2 meters and a 5ft shallow end

      14 kw heat pump

      Salt water

      Security roller cover

      Filtration by cartridge

      When funds allow an acapulco abris

 

If we were to go with this set up what would the approximate running costs be per month?

Could anyone recommend a good company to deal with , the closest to us is Piscine et Jardin, has anyone dealt with them?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Thanks Mark

[john and deb]

A sand filter is much more efficient in keeping the water clear and debris from the water when compared to a cartridge.   Cartridges should be used in pairs so when one is cleaned and left to dry (to help bind the fibres) the other can be used so you can still use the pool.   Cartridges are not cheap and should be replaced every two years.   A sand filter needs the sand (cheap) changing every three years or so and whilst the chamber is not cheap though not expensive, once you have it, it will last a very long time.   An alternative is diatomaceous earth which is expensive and messy but provides the best water clarity.   It has been said that the earth could be (don't know for sure)potentially carcenigenic (not sure on spelling) and the process of filtration involves making up a paste with the earth and dumping it in the skimmer which takes it into mesh type filters in the chamber where it traps dirt etc.

Pool liners are a matter of choice but they can mark easily and can be torn - though you can buy diffferent grades and types.   Needless to say the more expensive generally the better they are and the better the guarantees (you should get a minimum 5 year guarantee for the cheapest).   They can last up to 20 years.

Salt water systems can sometimes struggle with heavy bather use but you are talking of a large pool which makes a small difference.   The salt puts chlorine into the water by electrolysis and the water feels quite nice to swim in.   It seems it is a popular myth that salt pools are chlorine free.   There are environmental concerns about discharging salt water and it has been claimed on this site that the government are becoming increasingly more concerned about it (but not about the chlorine which seems strange) but I have not heard anything of it and would like to be better informed.

If you are opting to heat the water I don't know if solar power instead of or as a back up is an option in your area as it can be expensive to run a heater.

John

 

 

 

[JJ]

We have a 10 x 6m pool in the Charente Maritime.

Blockwork pools are more expensive to build, but do offer greater flexibility with different depths.

You will need some kind of heating up there, pompe a chaleurs are very popular at the moment, we are having one fitted for next season.

We have a salt water system, but I would not have one again, what you need is a dirct injection system with liquid chlorine (bleach) and ph minus or plus, they are not cheap, but seem but very effective, Poolguy is the man to speak with on this forum.

Security roller covers are also very popular, do not bother with alarms, they may be the cheapest option, but I think they are a waste of space, and I should know as we have one.

As the previous poster said, sand filtration is a far better option than cartridge.

Abris are fine, if you like that sort of thing, but they may be essential where you are.

I am unable to reccomend anyone, but be very carefull, there are a lot of sharks out there, we used a reccomended company who went bust and appear not to have the right guarentee, so just be careful and make sure you check the status of their 10 year guarentee.

Good Luck.

 

[Macker]

My advice;

Forget about the salt water, for sparkly clean water you can't beat chlorine with a direct injection system

Forget about the roiller shutter, you don't need it if you have an abri althought you will porbably make good use of a summer cover.

Forget about cartridges for all the reasons outlinde by the other posters.

And finally, for a pool that size with a volume of 70-80 cubic metres you would need a heat pump of at least 32kw.

[Jonzjob]

Hi Macker, I am intrigued, why forget the roller cover? And if you had an abri would you need a summer cover? Surely the abri would do just as good a job, although up there I suppose the summer cover would help quite a lot...

Our sand filter is filled with Zelbright. It is more expensive than sand, but it doesn't need back washing so often or for so long, it filters down to 1 to 5 microns and it lasts for about 5 years before you have to re-instate it. The filtration is as good as a DE filter, so the blurb tells us...

I think that the reason for not being too worried about chlorinated water being discharged is that the chlor dissipates fairly quickly, but salt builds up in time. Somethng else too, if you would rather go to a bromine system because you don't like the idea of swimming in chlorinated water. Bromine uses chlorine as an activator...

[Wils]

I recently installed a system called oxymatic from www.staraqua.com which uses no chemicals at all. Had it running for  two months now and it's great, water is really clear and feels lovely to swim in.

[Cohiba1961]

Just don’t worry about it. 

Since the legislation came into force in 2003 (and 2004) not a single

French person has been prosecuted.  Now

that means all are compliant (unlikely) or like most laws here you can ignore

it till something goes wrong.  I have 3

pools in 3 properties and I have no fences and only have alarms which I never

turn on coz they go off accidentally.

 

Bamber

[Wisigoth]

We bought a house with pool already installed and there are two things I wouldn't choose if I were starting again.  Firstly, our pool is an "L" shape to incorporate the steps.  This has proved problematic as we've just had an abri fitted and were restricted on type and it cost a lot more.  Secondly, we have a diatomic filter.  We've been replacing parts over the last few years which has proved costly, and it's still not working fantastically well. Also the diatomic earth costs about 40€ a bag.  The guy who fitted the abri also builds pools and he told us that diatomic filters cost more than sand filters. They regularly need replacement parts and work out much more expensive.  We're thinking of giving up with it and replacing it with a sand filter.  I also enquired about changing from standard chlorine to a salt pool and our abri guy said that if you are thinking of chambres d'hotes (which we are), then by law it must be a chlorine filter. Hope that helps.

 

[candide]

I am also considering a 14kw heat pump for a 10m x 5m pool with a 75 cubic metre capacity, although I have no idea if this is correct.   Macker, do you really mean a 32kw pump?

[Baz]

When deciding on the size of a heat pump as well as taking into account the size of the pool, you have also to consider the ambient temperatures range in which it is to operate.. Therefore the length of the season for pool use and the location will effect the capacity of the heat pump, also slightly oversizing is not a bad consideration. Good heat pumps are expensive so getting the correct sized one for your pool is vital.

Baz

[Macker]

Hi Macker, I am intrigued, why forget the roller cover? And if you had an abri would you need a summer cover? Surely the abri would do just as good a job, although up there I suppose the summer cover would help quite a lot...

You can forget the roller cover if you have an abri because the abri supplies all the security requirements that the ANFOR regulations stipulate, However, you will most likely have your abri open for most of the day during the sum mer months but it is still a good idea to have a summer cover (for the sake of 400 euros or so) that can be easily put on and removed and will warm up the water, stop evaporation and keep the water temperature stable.

[Macker]

am also considering a 14kw heat pump for a 10m x 5m pool with a 75 cubic metre capacity, although I have no idea if this is correct.   Macker, do you really mean a 32kw pump?

How can you consider this option if you have no idea if it is correct? If you have a 10x5 metre pool with, say an average depth of 1.5m then you are really pushing the capabilities of a 14kw pump. It all boils down to volume and pump capacity so you will be able to raise the pool temperature yes but you will be running your equipment for long hours with all the running costs, wear and tear, replacement value etc. Like all of these things, it's a call between short term gain and long term expense I think.

[wills99]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

So this is where we are now.

   10 by 5 meter block and liner pool

   1 meter shallow end, 2.5 meter deep end.

   32 Kw heat pump

   Sand filtration

   Security roller cover

   Klasik Abris

   Fresh Water

 

We are not sure whether to go the Automated chlorine route or the Oxymatic system that wils referred to. What are the pros and cons of each and which one is easier to live with as the property will only be occupied 7 months of the year?

 

Thanks once again

[candide]

How can you consider this option if you have no idea if it is correct?

Because it is the option that has been suggested to me by my professional pool installers.  I mean I am just unsure as to whether it is necessarily the best option.

[Macker]

With all due respect Candide you did say that you had no idea if this advice was correct. I would suggest to you (as a pool professional myself) that for your size of pool you should consider at least a 20kw heat pump and a 32kw if you can push the boat out. A 14kw pump will have no difficulty in pushing up your summer water temperatures but will struggle in spring, early summer and the autumn and, after all, the main purpose of a heat pump is to extend the swimming season. You will find that you will have to run it for long periods and in very small increments to nudge up your water temperature at the beginning of the season when the air temperature is lower while a bigger pump will cope much more easily with this situation. It's a bit like buying a central heating system really, if you're sitting in your living room and it's not quite warm enough, it's probably a bit late to wish you had spent that bit extra and bought bigger radiators. The same principle operates for most aspect of pool management, it's always wiser to buy equipment that can manage your requirements easily rather than pushing at the limits of 'just about capable' units.

[Poolguy]

[quote user="wills99"]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

So this is where we are now.

   10 by 5 meter block and liner pool

   1 meter shallow end, 2.5 meter deep end.

   32 Kw heat pump

   Sand filtration

   Security roller cover

   Klasik Abris

   Fresh Water

 

We are not sure whether to go the Automated chlorine route or the

Oxymatic system that wils referred to. What are the pros and cons of

each and which one is easier to live with as the property will only be

occupied 7 months of the year?

 

Thanks once again

[/quote]

Mark

If your looking for automatic control then An automatic chlor/ph controller will be far cheaper and easy to use system.

They are in operation all over the world and have performed very well

in both commercial and domestic situations for more than 20 years.

They use liquid chlorine and acid to balance the chemical make up of

the water in your poolboth or which ar readily available in your local

Brico or from pool shops as are very cheap.

This is in stark contrast to the Oxy system (which is marketing code

for Peroxide) which costs the earth and is only available from Pool

shops with proprietry brands. Moreover, if you begin putting peroxide

in your pool then you must continue to do so as the perxide will 'mask'

any other treatments. Hence if you want to change then you are obliged

to change your water along with it, which will further add to the cost.

This does not even include the health implications (there are many) of

using such an aggressive chemical as your sanitiser of choice.

If you add to the exemplar filtration meduims then you can enjoy very

pure clean water with little or no attention compared to manual systems

and you are only ever using "just enough" to keep the water clean and

sterile. Its a big difference.

If you want further information then PM me.

Andrew