Btuckey Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Bevvy,I have sent you a couple of private mails but these are not showing up in my 'Goto PM Sent Items' box. Have you received them?Brian 11500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Hi BrianHow nice to hear from you. No, did I not receive private emails, only your initial one via the Living France forum. However, on your advice we have been in touch with Jeanine and so far things are looking good. The site survey has been done and we have had a price for the house - however, the cost of installing the services came through today and has shocked us somewhat - 20,000 euros!! and we don't even want gas! We were expecting it to be nearer 10,000 euros so we are now endeavouring to find ways of trimming the house budget so as to take account of this additional cost. The foundations (as we suspected) are also going to cost much more aswell. Having said all this, Jeanine is extremely efficient isn't she? Her promptness in responding to emails etc. does inspire confidence so fingers crossed the budget will not be shot to pieces and we can proceed soon. I'm really glad you got in touch again as we were wondering how you are getting on with the geothermal heating system - is it all its cracked up to be? I have heard only good reports, but my husband is a little sceptical that it will not be sufficient to heat the house by itself (he knows how much I feel the cold) and I gather it has been extremely cold this winter. We last visited in February and it was freezing! I know your house is a lot bigger than ours so your thoughts would be appreciated. Are you settling in OK? Any problems with the house? Would you still recommend the building company.Thanks so much Brian - without you steering us in the right direction I think we may have given up.Kind regardsBevvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btuckey Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Dear Bevvy, I last visited Jeannine about ten days ago at her office in Narbonne. As soon as I sat down she leaned forward and said “thank you for living France”. I thought that she was saying “thank you for living in France” and hence giving her the business! Anyway it quickly transpired that she was talking about a referral and I guessed that it was you. She really is efficient isn’t she. When we bought the land a few years ago, the CDU stated that we could access the main Tampon E.U. (sewer). Our land is on a significant slope and we would have had to buy a pump to get the foul water up to the TEU. Unfortunately, Le Maire wrote to the Equipment Division in Quillan saying that he was unhappy about this as an earth movement has reduced the capacity of the pipe. Jeannine then got on the Maire’s case and he backed off and sent a letter stating that he was now happy for us to connect as long as we understood that it was at our risk. (Jeannine could have just accepted the ruling but was, as ever, looking after our interests!) However, the Equipment Division responded by stating that the Maire had exceeded his authority and could not issue such a letter. Anyway, the upshot was that we had to get a quote for a Fosse Sceptique. To be honest, I was always of the opinion that we would need one. We originally got a very high estimate for the earthworks too as our utilities have to cross a neighbours field. We obtained a much better price for this from a friend who owns a local plant and aggregates business. Try e-mailing Patrice Dasse at: [email protected] mentioning my name. (He is also my present neighbour.) Although he doesn’t speak much English, he will bend over to help. Jeannine and her project manager, Jean-Luc, have had many discussions with Patrice over the specifications and know Patrice well. The heating has been another saga! My wife originally did the research for available systems and came up with a solar system from Multibeton. The nearest installer is in Foix and he said that he could not be bothered to come out as far as us (50km)! Jeannine must have sent them around twenty e-mails and they finally responded with a scrappy two page fax. Jeannine then suggested that we try a company called SOFATH. She has dealt with their associate organisation ‘Vivrelec’. They provided a very comprehensive thirty page quotation but only supply geothermal heating. Like your husband I was a tad cynical! We also had questions like could we leave the system on tick-over whilst we were away during the winter. I telephoned their representative, Pierre Autonès, the day after meeting Jeannine and he said that he was in our area that day and could see us in the afternoon. We managed to get Patrice over at very short notice so that they could discuss the earthmoving requirements. As a rule of thumb, you need twice the heated area for the buried pipes. As we have 250m2 of floor space Pierre recommended 400m2 of piping in the garden. The pipes are buried at a depth of 600mm and you can grow vegetables or shrubs on top. No trees because of the deeper roots. Pierre speaks perfect English and I suggested that we repair to the local café to discuss the technicalities. Thermodynamics was not my best subject at college and he spent over two hours patiently answering my questions and explaining how it all worked. Again I was most impressed as we had not then signed a contract so this was all pre-sales for SOFATH. They have earth temperature charts for the area and Pierre explained how the system would provide almost all of our heating and hot water requirements. However, we did expect to have to heat the water by electricity during the summer months whilst the heating was switched off. In fact, this is not so. We have chosen a reversible heat pump which cools the house during the summer. The heat scavenged can in turn heat a 300litre water tank from ambient to 80C in just over an hour! I ended up being very impressed.... (I later spoke to an engineer in the UK who stated that geothermal was much better than solar but was not used in the UK because of the land requirements for the buried pipes.) If you are interested in this heating system, contact Pierre Autonès at [email protected] or on 06 66 86 16 45. More sharing options... Audois Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Brian, Bev et al .... especially those doing a major renovation or a new build!Vivrelec in the AUDE region (and possibly further afield) are keeping certain builders & architects very happy with getting them to recommend to (particularly) English clients to go onto electrical heating.Electricity is incredibly expensive to run & heat a house and is due to go up in price .... I've run into an extraordinary number of English who are all singing the praises of the 'cheap' cost of Vivrelec!!!! DO YOUR SUMS PLEASE & ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONSI'm on a public forum but if anyone wants anymore info please do e-mail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Btuckey Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 Audois,Thanks for your response, but if you read my post you will notice that the heating is geothermal and not 'straight' electric. SOFATH were recommended by the builder only because they are Vivrelec accredited. We were given a choice of 'top-up' methods but, to be honest, it was a narrow choice. We don't have mains gas in the valley and the cost of LPG is prohibitive. None of my neighbours use oil and I have never seen a tanker in the village. We looked at a system using wood pellets, but what a hassle! We will have a solid fuel fire in the Salon but this is not of the back-boiler type. That really just leaves electricity. Is it likely to rise in cost faster than oil in France? One can only hope that Nuclear is more predictable than Middle-east oil...However, thanks for your input, it is useful to have all points of view on the Forum. If we had just moved to France we could well have been 'seduced' by the low initial capital cost of electricity. Our present bungalow is so heated and our electricity bill for the winter was frightening!All the best,Brian 11500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Angie Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Dear Brian Thank you so much for your most helpful email. I think the geothermal route is the one we will take…we had originally decided on electric convector heaters mainly because of the convenience (although when we visited Puivert in February, they were on the second day of a power cut!) as I personally do not like gas (due to a nasty experience as a child) and we don’t like the idea of leaving a boiler “ticking over” whilst we are in the UK. However, as you say, and as we have since discovered, “normal” electricity is very expensive so geothermal seems to be an ideal choice. We shall discuss the various options but SOFARTH do sound like just what we are looking for. We will have to see how much it works out at. Really appreciate you putting us in touch with Mr Dasse, he sounds like a very useful guy to know – I have emailed him as you suggested and introduced ourselves. However, it was Mr Dasse (via Jeanine) who gave us the quotation for installing the services but we have decided to get another quotation aswell – just to put our minds at rest. Having said that, we had no idea how much it was going to cost to have the services connected but one builder quoted us 5,500 euros, another 6,000 euros and Jeanine suggested about 10,000 euros. However, as mentioned Mr Dasse has quoted in excess of 20,000 euros. Obviously if the second quotation is close to Mr Dasse’s then I think we shall use him as it is apparent “he knows his stuff” and Jeanine and her team are happy to work with him and that has got to be a benefit. How long ago did you submit your permis de construire? Am I right in thinking it takes about 2 months? It is good news that you have interest in your bungalow especially without advertising the fact! Do you have a finish date for your new house – I am assuming we need to allow about 12months. Thanks again Brian for all your encouragement and helpful information. I will get in touch again once I have any news to report. All the best Bev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Euge Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Hello to all and thanks for your imput, it make great reading finding out what is what. just a breif question, what is SOFARTH ? and has anyone had a quote on the cost of installing thermal heating?RegardsEuge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Btuckey Posted June 19, 2005 Author Share Posted June 19, 2005 Hi Euge,SOFATH is a manufacturer and installer of geothermal heating systems. Have a look at their site: http://www.sofath.com/sofath/default_gb.htmlSimply repeating received quotations is a dangerous thing, as each installation is so different. Ours was for circa 30,000Euros. This sounds a lot, but we are heating 250m2 of floor area with a volume of 600m3. The system is designed to provide an ambient temperature of 20C in the house, whilst the outside temperature is -7C, without the need for additional (i.e. electric) heating. The system is also reversible in that the rooms are cooled in summer thereby heating the domestic hot water supply. (See posting above.) We looked very closely at the Return On Investment and the cost profile. I am happy to pay more whilst I am earning in exchange for cheap running costs when I am retired.Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Btuckey Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Hi Bev, I am really glad to have been of help. Yes, the Permis de Construire takes around two months assuming that there are no major design or planning issues. Jeannine originally quoted us fifteen months because the village was snowed in last February. In fact, Patrice couldn’t get his trucks out of his yard for ten weeks! As you know, in France the contracted finish date is associated with heavy penalties for over-runs. Jeannine therefore built in a significant contingency. However, she believes that the house will be finished within twelve months. All the best, Brian 11500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Please sign in to comment You will be able to leave a comment after signing in Sign In Now Share More sharing options... Followers 0
Audois Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Brian, Bev et al .... especially those doing a major renovation or a new build!Vivrelec in the AUDE region (and possibly further afield) are keeping certain builders & architects very happy with getting them to recommend to (particularly) English clients to go onto electrical heating.Electricity is incredibly expensive to run & heat a house and is due to go up in price .... I've run into an extraordinary number of English who are all singing the praises of the 'cheap' cost of Vivrelec!!!! DO YOUR SUMS PLEASE & ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONSI'm on a public forum but if anyone wants anymore info please do e-mail me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btuckey Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 Audois,Thanks for your response, but if you read my post you will notice that the heating is geothermal and not 'straight' electric. SOFATH were recommended by the builder only because they are Vivrelec accredited. We were given a choice of 'top-up' methods but, to be honest, it was a narrow choice. We don't have mains gas in the valley and the cost of LPG is prohibitive. None of my neighbours use oil and I have never seen a tanker in the village. We looked at a system using wood pellets, but what a hassle! We will have a solid fuel fire in the Salon but this is not of the back-boiler type. That really just leaves electricity. Is it likely to rise in cost faster than oil in France? One can only hope that Nuclear is more predictable than Middle-east oil...However, thanks for your input, it is useful to have all points of view on the Forum. If we had just moved to France we could well have been 'seduced' by the low initial capital cost of electricity. Our present bungalow is so heated and our electricity bill for the winter was frightening!All the best,Brian 11500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Dear Brian Thank you so much for your most helpful email. I think the geothermal route is the one we will take…we had originally decided on electric convector heaters mainly because of the convenience (although when we visited Puivert in February, they were on the second day of a power cut!) as I personally do not like gas (due to a nasty experience as a child) and we don’t like the idea of leaving a boiler “ticking over” whilst we are in the UK. However, as you say, and as we have since discovered, “normal” electricity is very expensive so geothermal seems to be an ideal choice. We shall discuss the various options but SOFARTH do sound like just what we are looking for. We will have to see how much it works out at. Really appreciate you putting us in touch with Mr Dasse, he sounds like a very useful guy to know – I have emailed him as you suggested and introduced ourselves. However, it was Mr Dasse (via Jeanine) who gave us the quotation for installing the services but we have decided to get another quotation aswell – just to put our minds at rest. Having said that, we had no idea how much it was going to cost to have the services connected but one builder quoted us 5,500 euros, another 6,000 euros and Jeanine suggested about 10,000 euros. However, as mentioned Mr Dasse has quoted in excess of 20,000 euros. Obviously if the second quotation is close to Mr Dasse’s then I think we shall use him as it is apparent “he knows his stuff” and Jeanine and her team are happy to work with him and that has got to be a benefit. How long ago did you submit your permis de construire? Am I right in thinking it takes about 2 months? It is good news that you have interest in your bungalow especially without advertising the fact! Do you have a finish date for your new house – I am assuming we need to allow about 12months. Thanks again Brian for all your encouragement and helpful information. I will get in touch again once I have any news to report. All the best Bev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euge Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Hello to all and thanks for your imput, it make great reading finding out what is what. just a breif question, what is SOFARTH ? and has anyone had a quote on the cost of installing thermal heating?RegardsEuge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btuckey Posted June 19, 2005 Author Share Posted June 19, 2005 Hi Euge,SOFATH is a manufacturer and installer of geothermal heating systems. Have a look at their site: http://www.sofath.com/sofath/default_gb.htmlSimply repeating received quotations is a dangerous thing, as each installation is so different. Ours was for circa 30,000Euros. This sounds a lot, but we are heating 250m2 of floor area with a volume of 600m3. The system is designed to provide an ambient temperature of 20C in the house, whilst the outside temperature is -7C, without the need for additional (i.e. electric) heating. The system is also reversible in that the rooms are cooled in summer thereby heating the domestic hot water supply. (See posting above.) We looked very closely at the Return On Investment and the cost profile. I am happy to pay more whilst I am earning in exchange for cheap running costs when I am retired.Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btuckey Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Hi Bev, I am really glad to have been of help. Yes, the Permis de Construire takes around two months assuming that there are no major design or planning issues. Jeannine originally quoted us fifteen months because the village was snowed in last February. In fact, Patrice couldn’t get his trucks out of his yard for ten weeks! As you know, in France the contracted finish date is associated with heavy penalties for over-runs. Jeannine therefore built in a significant contingency. However, she believes that the house will be finished within twelve months. All the best, Brian 11500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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