Beemer1150 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The story so far:A lady who lives in northern France, gives her French car to her son but doesn't change the Carte Grise. Son moves to UK with the car and subsequently sells it (still French registered) to a friend of mine. He drives it back to France (still with original lady owner on the Carte Grise, but insured as he has a Trader policy enabling him to drive anything, anywhere) and leaves it with me to register, use for a couple of months, and then sell.The present situation:Car is now insured and newly CT'd and I want to change the Carte Grise to my name. However, the Carte Grise, although marked 'Vendu' and dated has no supporting signature and there is no Certificat de Cession. I do however have a downloaded Certificat de Situation!The Question:What would happen if I presented all the documents needed except the Cert of Cession and with an unsigned 'Vendu' on the Carte Grise? There's nothing underhand here, everyone is aware of the sale and I could post the Carte Grise and a downloaded Certificate of Cessation to the original lady owner and ask her to sign them, but it will take time and I'd planned to take the 30 minute drive to the Sub Prefecture the day after next...Advise please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 If you are looking to uncomplicate matters then sign them both yourself or get someone else to sign them for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer1150 Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 I must admit that had crossed my mind, but...One, it would be nice to be legal!Two, are there any cross-checks - the thought of a midnight call from the Boys in Blue is a bit worrying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 You are right to be wary of 'uncomplicated' advice. Think about it.....The French lady is still the official owner of the vehicle because she hasn't completed the transfer of title to the third party (her son). Despite not being the legal owner of the vehicle, the third party (son) has sold it on to your friend in the UK. Your friend has no legal title to the vehicle because he bought it from someone who doesn't own it and therefore you don't have legal title to it either. You now turn up at the prefecture in Niort with a carte grise and certificat de cession upon which you have forged signatures purporting to be that of the original owner (the French lady). The prefecture clerk inputs the vehicle details and pulls up a screen copy of her registration application form which she signed when she originally registered the car in her name and immediately finds the signatures don't match.Article R441-6 of the code penal tells you all about the 30,000€ fine and two years imprisonment you get for fraudulently attempting to obtain an official document.Best get your friend to get the son to get the lady to legally sign over the car to you. You can then register yourself as the new owner - all above board and legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer1150 Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Thanks SD, I thought that had to be the way to go, unless this was something that happened often and was officially 'overlooked'. It would just have saved time if the documentation to hand was sufficient to change ownership.There's no problem. I'll phone the registered owner, who has already offered to complete the paperwork if needed, and post it off. Just cancel trip to Saintes this Thursday... ! Much better than the midnight knock and a €30,000 overdraft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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