More on scooters...

[Beemer1150]

I'd thought about buying a cheap sub-50cc scooter in England and hang it on the back of the Camping Car when I next take it to the UK (it has a proper pull-out motorcycle carrier).

I'm no stranger to registering vehicles here (camping car, moto, various cars) but wondered about scooters under 50cc - particularly if they are pre-2002, when I seem to recall they don't need immatriculation at all. This would avoid any of the CoC hassles and expense, but if so is this date the manufacture, first registration (ie in the UK) or first use here?

Any comments please?

[Sunday Driver]

New 50c scooters sold in France since 2004 all come with a carte grise but older machines don't need to be registered.  However, it's all change this coming December when every scooter will have to be registered. 

If you bring one back from the UK, then if your local scooter shop is authorised to process registrations, they will be able to issue you with a carte grise. If you haven't got a certificate of conformity, don't worry - the 20 million kids all lining up to get their old wrecks registered won't have one either.  Because of that, you only need to supply the basic details of the machine - make, model and frame number - which can be evidenced from the V5C.  The shop will likely ask for a small admin fee but at least the carte grise is issued free of charge.

 

[Beemer1150]

Thanks SD - I have a useful contact in the UK who could probably source me a reasonable cheapie, so it could be worth the extra weight on the way home!

[val douest]

This could be a problem for us! My husband bought a moped, about 40 years old, from a local bourse d'échange for 30 euros in non-running and somewhat dilapidated condition. It would have been ridiculous to ask for a receipt since the said moped was virtually scrap. However, he managed to fix it up and get it running and roadworthy at very little cost. It is insured and he now uses it regularly. At the time (two years ago) we were unaware that it would eventually have to be registered.

I see from http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F16304.xhtml that I need "un certificat de cession ou une facture" to register it! I'll bet there are many other french people who inherited, were given or bought such a vehicle maybe 40 years ago and will be unable to fulfil this requirement.

I suppose we could use our imagination, but if there is a better way perhaps one of you out there could let me know?

[Sunday Driver]

The concensus amongst the trade is that the administration insisting on owners providing a receipt is a waste of time - mostly for the very reason that you cite above.  Come December, they foresee a mass swopping of receipts between scooter owning teenagers......[;-)]

It would have been far simpler to ask for a déclaration sur honneur by the applicant or parent stating that they are the legal owner of the bike.  Given that they've already changed the procedure (having created a new central department to process scooter registrations, then closed it down) I suspect they may well see the light before the deadline arrives.

 

[Beemer1150]

Just an idle thought really as it's unlikely to happen, but...

Until December I could legally ride an unregistered sub-50cc scooter in France. If I take a vehicle to the UK it must be legal in the country of origin...  so if I unloaded my unregistered, no-numberplate 49cc scooter from the camping car would it be legal on English roads (assuming it's insured)?

Whether or not it's legal I can't see an English bobby taking it too kindly... !

[Sunday Driver]

The use of vehicles in other EU countries is covered by the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic which places an obligation on signatory countries to recognise the legality of vehicles from other signatory countries.

However, in order to be entitled to the benefits of the Convention, every motor vehicle being driven abroad must, inter alia, have a registration certificate and be fitted with registration plates in an approved format.  The driver must carry the vehicle's registration certificate or (eg, in the case of a hire car) proof of his/her right to be in possession of the vehicle.

An unregistered sub-50cc scooter will not meet the above conditions therefore it cannot be legally ridden outside French national territory.

 

[dave21478]

I'm perhaps showing my ignorance here, but its not something I have ever thought about before.....

If the scooter does not currently require registration, does it require insurance? ie stand-alone vehicle insurance or would it be covered under my civil responsibility cover? Will this change come December?

[Sunday Driver]

Every owner of a motor vehicle must be covered by an insurance guaranteeing civil liability which may be incurred due to damage suffered by third parties resulting from injury to person or property.  The contracts must be purchased from an insurance company authorized to practice the business of insurance against accidents resulting from the use of motor vehicles.

 

[val douest]

Thanks, Sunday Driver. I'll wait a while and watch the french web site for future developments.

Yet another piece of poorly thought out legislation by the bureaucrats. Or maybe it's a concious effort on their part to remove a lot of the old wrecks from the road?