Chaudieres

[HELDAV]

Hi There

Can anybody help us with sourcing oil-fired central heating boilers (makes/models) which don't require a second mortgage to buy. We've got a couple of brochures from our plombiere (Ideal-Standard.fr and Chauffage Francais) and the prices made us wince - between 2 & 3 times the price of equivalent UK models. In UK I can get a Trianco 32kwh jobbie for under £600 - is there anything in France which can come close to this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

Oil boilers are cheap here - there are plenty of threads on this, methinks.

You can buy a Lamborghini CK32 (17-32kw) boiler and a DeVille C09 burner for less than EUR 750 from Leroy Merlin, and even less from merchants.

That's £500 - and remember, French heating oil is 32 sec red diesel, not 28 sec Paraffin as in the UK.

[HELDAV]

Opel

Thanks for that. I drew a blank with Leroy Merlin, but eventually found them on the Castorama website.

Once again, thanks.

Dave

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

I wouldn't bother with Castorama - they are notoriously poor with this kind of stuff. They have chronic stock control issues. AND - they are dearer - their boiler is about 750 Eur without burner, LMs is that with burner.

Leroy Merlin have them in stock. You can't order from the website for these. They are in their Chauffage Central booklet/price list, and usually on the shopfloor.

[HELDAV]

Opel

Thanks for that. I shall pass this to our plombiere. Doubtless he will try to sell me something more expensive - but I will be firm.

Do you have any thoughts on the comparative running costs of fioul/electricity for the provision of hot water? This question is prompted by the humungous increase in the cost of fioul over the last year.

Regards

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

Personally, I use a Chauffe-Eau on Creuse. And I work with a French SARL who generally installs Oil with a rechauffage mixte.

Why do I use a Chauffe-Eau?

1) they cost about 100 Eur, plus the groupe securite, and last for at least 7 years, and are dead easy to fit. Cost of Chauffe-Eau plus groupe securite plus jour/nuit contactor - about 200 Eur.

2) The equivalent indirect version costs at least 5 times that, and more because the heating circuit requires either a pump or zone valve and more pipework.

So, assume that the non-Chauffe-Eau route is taken, you pay out about 1000 Eur. You would have to use an awful lot of cheap rate Elec for a long time to pay back the difference.

 

[HELDAV]

Opel

Thanks for that. Seems like we've got our own forum going here - but what the hell.

Questions. Questions. Questions.

What is a "French SARL". What is a "rechauffage mixte".

Chauffe-Eau. I found them on the Leroy Merlin site. A good range at good prices. I assume that the insulation in these units is up to scratch. For my money, this is just as important as the price of the electricity you put into them.

Creuse. Isn't there a charge to be paid to EDF for installation? From a fact sheet I've got from the EDF site, the cost of Creuse seems to be about 20% less than Pleine. Is this your experience?

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

A SARL is a limited company.

rechauffage mixte is a hot water tank with a coil in it which is connected to the heating circuit to allow the boiler to heat the water in the tank. And it has an electric element to allow you to heat via electricity if you don't wish to fire up the boiler. You can get them without the element, which makes them cheaper. Depends what you need/want. They are called ballon rechauffage - the name of the other one is strictly called a ballon rechauffage mixte.

The insulation levels for any of the Chauffe-Eau's you buy is superb - they have to meet both a Euronorm (EN) and Norm-Francais (NF) in this regard and other aspects such as electrical compliance etc.

We paid nothing to have HC/HP. We pay about 10.5c per unit on HP and 6.5c per unit on HC. The other advantage of HC is you buy 2 € timers for your washer/dryer/dishwasher/pool pump and run these on Creuse too.....

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

A bit more while I'm in flow...

A ballon rechauffage mixte, fed from a boiler of, say, 28kw output, without any heating being demanded, will take cold mains water at 14C to 65C (normal anti-legionnaire temp) in about 30 mins. With heating on at the same time, probably 1-1.5 hours (very dependant on many factors, but you get the idea). 

A Chauffe-eau or the ballon mixte using electricity would take 5-6 hours to do the same. Assuming the maximum 2.4kW element allowed on monophase.

Cool people when rewiring add a "Creuse Bus" to their properties - designated sockets/outlets that are controlled by a jour/nuit contactor. Only when Creuse is active do these sockets (and thus those items around the place you want on Creuse) become live.

Easy to do when you're doing the old place up, and cheap.

[HELDAV]

Opel

Once again - thanks.

What is a jour/nuit contactor - what does it do and how does it work?

I like the idea of a Chauffe Eau on Creuse. Anything which saves me money is GOOD. However, may I wind things up with the following hypothetical scenario:-

Your weekend guests, being a clean lot, have plundered your Creuse Chauffe Eau during the day, leaving you with a tankful of tepid water with which to wash the mountain of dishes after dinner. How do you cope with this? Or do you just ensure that it remains a hypothetical problem?

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

Jour/nuit contactor: a small module that you fit to your "tableau" (fusebox). It is connected to a special pair of connections on your Heures Creuses capable compteur (meter). These are not power connections, these are connections that EDF make once or twice a day (at set times) by sending a control signal down the power lines. This makes the contactor open or close. So, at night when EDF send the signal (usually at some tome between 10.30 and 11.30 - it varies between localities) you contactor closes and the Chauffe-Eau starts to cook the water. Assuming it isn't already at temperature. In the morning, EDF removes the signal, and the contactor opens. This normally happens between 6 and 8 am. Some lucky souls also get a couple of hours each day, around 12 midday to 2pm. We don't.

That's it in fairly simple terms. There is a bit more to it than that. And the contactor CANNOT be used as a disjuncteur - one must be fiited upstream of the j/n contactor.

The contactor has 3 positions - OFF (it never comes on) - AUTO (it only comes on when EDF signal it) and - ON - this overrides the contactor and powers the Chauffe-Eau. Note that this remains the case until EDF remove the signal next time - in other words the ON position is not permanently on.

To answer your second question, choose your tank size to cover most eventualities, without going too mad. Most households seem to get by on 200L, but there are occasions when this isn't enough.  Simply anticipate it and switch the contactor to ON. IT costs you more for the elec, but you're only doing it now and again, aren't you?

I would say we had to do this once or twice a month.

[HELDAV]

Opel

This system is absolutely brilliant.

Your answer to my first question answers my second question, doesn't it.

IT'S FOR ME! I shall seek out my plombiere/electricien right away and arrange for a devis. Sorry - I just don't have the time for this sort of DIY at the moment (although I am capable). We're only part timers at the moment and I've got enough decorating ahead of me as it is.

Regards