Daft Doctor
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Posts posted by Daft Doctor
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I must admit that I was surprised when I read the original postings on this thread, as like parsnips I was pretty certain that private pension pots weren't 'comptes' for the purposes of form 3196. This in my opinion would be no different from having, say, an endowment policy in the UK nearing maturity. It may have considerable capital value, and the insurance company would be the holding financial institution. You wouldn't dream of declaring that on 3916, would you, so a private pension plan would, in my opinion, be no different.
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Hi, we had exactly the same experience, but persistence did pay off in the end. We received our social charges refund in December 2016, but as with the OP, no interest was forthcoming. I sent a few emails with the award letter attached, asking for payment of the interest due, copied to both the tax office and local trésorerie. The tax office told us that it was the trésorerie who were responsible for making the calculation and the payment, so I sent a further email to them in July last year, at which point the manager got and touch. After an apology, the payment was eventually made in September, and it was in line with the figure I expected. It might be worth you going in to see them in person, but I'd try emailing the local trésorerie first and see what happens....
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Ok, so, as predicted, by yesterday morning I'd not had a reply from URSSAF. I therefore wrote again and sent them the following:1. Letter pointing out their mistakes and the lack of a reply to previous letter;2. My own calculations of cotisations due for both myself and Mrs DD;3. Cheques for both cotisations in line with my calculations;4. A request for either agreement with my calculations or, if not, an explanation as to why not? 5. A desire for early clarity on the matter to avoid the need to contact the commission de recours amiable.Let's see what happens, and whether they try to impose any penalties for 'underpayment'. Will keep you posted......
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Well, we had our driveway and shared private road tarmacked as part of our new house build in 2014. The specification was for 50cm depth of 'tout venant' (hard core to you and I) on geotextile (weedproof membrane), very well compacted, then a 7cm layer of fine gravel, again very well compacted and thoroughly rolled. The tarmac finish layer was 6cm thick, done by a reputable company round these parts. The aim is not only to have a well compacted base to prevent sinking, but it is also important for the tout venant and gravel to be of uniform size. This prevents irregular heave in the surface when the moisture in the base freezes in winter. If the base is made up of irregular grade substrates, differential movement can occur in frozen conditions, with associated cracking and breaking up of the tarmac, etc.Despite the huge variations in temperature that we face in the Alps (-15 to +35 degrees C), we are into our 4th winter and all looks as good as new......
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Thanks Chancer, that is hugely helpful.
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Hi Chancer, AE turnover was declared in box 5UA on 2042C PRO, so no excuses for them lumping it in with property and investment income. The amount declared was above the 1,931 euro lower threshold, and was clearly Mrs DD's as it was in the column for 'Déclarant 2'. I have since forwarded with my letter her 'Attestation Fiscale AE' for 2016, as well as the relevant tax declarations and Avis d'Impôt.I was interested to read your comments about timescales for challenging their assertions and going to a formal contestation. I guess I'll have to mention something about that when I send them the cheques for our cotisations next week, along with (as you have done) a breakdown of how for each of us our assiette and therefore cotisations should be calculated.
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Well, after sending my RAR letter off the URSAFF on 20th December with supporting documents appealing against their calculation of our PUMA cotisations, guess what.............nothing. With 8 days to go until payment is due, I'm still waiting, but I suppose it is no surprise.It has however just become evident to me why their figures are so wrong. Not only have they declined to reduce Mrs DD's cotisations on account of her Micro-Entreprise (AKA AE) turnover in 2016, they have actually included her turnover as part of the 'assiette' to be charged at 8% as property and investment income!! The numbers match up exactly, as they have overstated this category of income by exactly the amount of AE turnover. I know from discussions above that there may not be a proportional reduction in Mrs DD's PUMA cotisations due if it is perceived AE profit and not turnover that is considered, but to negligently include it in with the other income is a disgrace.If I haven't had a revised figure from them by early next week, I'll be sending them only what I think I owe them, with a clearly worded letter explaining why. Quite clearly a bunch of complete muppets..........
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Ah, ok EuroTrash, I understand what you are saying. I'll see what they come back with as a response to my letter if and when they reply), they still overstated our property income by around 3k euros in any case.....
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Hi EuroTrash, no, her turnover was between those numbers, but as Chancer has already mentioned, for AE's there is usually no allowance for expenses, cost of sales, etc, so I assume that the turnover figure is the one that is relevant. If her revenus professionnels had simply been written down by 71%, I would have expected to see the appropriate figure on the appel de cotisations. As it is, the figure was zero, which makes me think it was just missed or ignored. We will see, you may after all be correct, and if so we will pay around 550 euros more than was expected. Under those circumstances, she might as well shut down the business, as it is a lot of work for a miniscule profit as it stands (mainly due to exorbitant ebay and paypal charges......)
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For Mrs DD they just ignored her AE turnover (I'm pretty sure that I'm with Chancer on this one, it is turnover that matters, not taxable profit..) completely, putting her down as having zero professional income. As her 2016 turnover places her between 5% and 10% of PASS, she should be entitled to a several hundred euros sizable rebate on her PUMA cotisations.Today we have written to URSSAF putting our case for recalculation, including tax declarations, AE attestation fiscale, avis d'impôts, the lot! Hopefully a revised demand will ensue, but I'm not holding my breath. After nearly 6 years in France this sort of administrative sh*te gets no easier to live with.....
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Our 'appels de cotisation' arrived from URSSAF today. Firstly, the income numbers used bear no relation to the 'revenues du capital et du patromine' for 2016 (as declared by us in 2017). Secondly, they have ignored all Mrs DD's professional income as an AE, which means her cotisation is more than twice what it should be....Of course we will appeal, but that is yet more time and effort when there are a million other things to be doing before Christmas. Why should it be so difficult to get the basics right? As said before, I don't mind paying, but I do mind being fleeced through carelessness or incompetence.......
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Hi, after 5 years of paying huge sums for a 'bells and whistles' mutuelle, we have decided to change from 1st January. Having performed the necessary formalities to quit our current provider, we are in the market for a lower cost, better value policy.We are after fairly minimal cover (probably 100% TC for everything including dental and optical), but also want a company who are efficient, process all repayments automatically and offer tiers payant for just about everything. There is no need for anyone to be speaking to us in English or any English documentation, something which in my experience simply adds a fair chunk to any premiums.If anyone has any recommendations based on their own experiences, I'd be very grateful. I have for instance been looking at MMA as their policies seem very reasonable, but I have no idea how good they are as a company. Thanks in advance.
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Hi Norman, yes I didn't see your post re Boursarama, and if they offer free banking too, that is great news. The 'Mobilité Bancaire' service is something everyone should be aware of though, as it is now offered by all banks and makes the task of changing banks relatively simple and cost free. BPA used to charge 90 euros (complete rip-off) for closing an account, but they've had to conform and ditch the charge. The point is that if anyone wants to benefit from cheaper banking, be it Axa Banque, Boursarama, ING or whoever, they can do it without breaking sweat.
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Hi Chancer, you're right about cash, can't pay that in directly, but it might be possible via a local Axa agency, you would need to check that. You do indeed send cheques to a central Axa sorting office in Paris, a bit of an inconvenience if you process a lot of them I suppose.
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At long last we've been able to secure banking in France which is truly free by default! We have just returned to Axa Banque as our principal bank, having got sick of paying over 250 euros a year in fees at Banque Populaire des Alpes for no extra benefit whatsoever. Our Axa current account and normal transactions, along with gold Visa cards x 2 are free, no charges whatsoever, no cotisations carte or frais de gestion compte. We only pay something if we don't spend 900 euros each per 3 month period on our cards, which for us is no challenge whatsoever. Axa is an online bank, though phone contact is easy and emails are dealt with within 2 working days. We are understandably pleased!There is now a 'mobilité bancaire' service throughout France, so changing all our prélèvements, etc, was easy, all done via an online mandate generated by Axa. The only challenge was closing our account and leaving BPA, akin to Brexit negotiations at some point, but we got there with no exit costs (think they've now been banned in France?). BPA didn't once ask why we were leaving or show any interest in keeping us, but can't say I'm surprised. When I questioned the level of their fees last year, the manager looked at me and said 'well, you're paying for me, aren't you!', as if I should be grateful...........
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Got the same letter today. I was an 'ayant droit' on my wife's healthcare, but not only will I be paying into PUMa as of this month, but my wife will also, as her AE earnings are below the necessary threshold for exoneration. I knew it was coming of course, and the principle behind it is entirely reasonable, but the suddenness of the change and impending payment demand is a bit of a surprise. It won't be a fortune, nothing like private healthcare would have cost, though a bit more notice of when the change was happening for us would have been welcome. Happy Xmas, as you say........
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Social charges on UK property income should be itemised on the avis but then added back 100% so become a paper transaction only.Tax is treated differently. The tax credit applied in respect of UK property income should equal the proportion of your total income tax charge that equates to the proportion that your UK property income forms of the total income assessed. For instance, if you had 20k euros of UK property income and 20k euros of other French taxable income, tax would be calculated on an income of 40k euros, but a credit of 50% would then be applied. It will not be the same result as would be if the UK property income was excluded from the calculations altogether, since adding the UK property income in before calculating the total tax due often pushes you into a higher tax bracket. Then again, the tax credit applied will likely be more than the actual UK tax you will pay on that income, especially considering the personal tax allowance applicable in the UK.
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There has been no change to the policy on how the reduction is social charges is calculated for UK property income, it should be a straight 100%. Check your avis carefully, as a few years ago they did initially try to charge me in full, until I pointed out their mistake. I do pay social charges on my private pension income, as I am an early retiree, could you have some of this sort of income which has been take into account perhaps?
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If you are planning to hire a car in France or elsewhere, the best way to avoid any potential issues like this is to either:1. Take out an annual insurance policy (with someone like Questor) covering all car hire excess costs with unlimited number of rentals (cost aroung 55 euros per year) or2. If you have a French gold visa card (all banks tend to offer one) and you pay for the hire with it, car hire excess insurance is free with the card.In fact, with a French gold visa card, there is also comprehensive travel insurance and mountain sports insurance included, which makes the 120 euros per year fee for the card reasonable value....
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Well, I'd be really miffed if any revaluation was done on a desktop basis. My house was built and therefore initially assessed for TF & Td'H in 2014, so the valeur locative is realistic. I already get hit for 5k euros per year for these two taxes, so substantial blanket increases to save time and effort would be grossly unfair when (as others have mentioned) there are many properties which have been substantially extended or improved, but never reassessed.We live in a beautiful part of the Alps, but our mairie is certainly of the 'spend, spend, spend' variety, with all the wastage of labour and indulgent budgeting which others will no doubt have experienced in other parts of France. I may be wrong, but isn't it true that public sector staff cannot be made redundant? If so, then savings can only be made on labour costs through natural wastage, by not replacing staff on retirement. Huge savings could be made however by not having massive fireworks displays every time there is a holiday to celebrate, by not giving out so many grants to 'worthy local causes', and to stop investment in projects to draw in tourists to an already over-touristed (and at times polluted) area, amongst other things. I'd like to think that our commune would be wary of unfairly increasing TF and Td'H for fear of killing off the local housing market and deterring investment in real estate both by those from other parts of France and by those from abroad. We'll wait to see how this pans out............
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Pomme, although my NHS pension is a 'public sector' pension, it is not a 'government' pension for the purposes of the dual tax treaty. It is classed differently to pensions for policemen, firemen, civil servants and teachers, etc and is wholly taxable in France, and therefore is correctly entered in box 1AM, not 1AL.I accept your point (and kind definitions) regarding the nature of CSG and CDRS, which of course I knew. My comment of hope in my previous post was very much meant as tongue in cheek.Idun, again I very much take your point, but the notes to form 2047 state the following concerning the distinction between public and private pensions, and which box therefore to tick:'Nature du revenu : cochez la case “public” pour les pensions versées au titre d’un emploi ayant été exercéauprès de l’État, d’une collectivité territoriale ou d’unepersonne morale de droit public (établissement public,notamment) et la case “privé” pour les autres pensions. Pour le report sur la déclaration no 2042, voir page 1 de la présente notice.'In the above context, as my NHS pension comes from work carried out and paid for by a public organisation, I consider it definitely 'public' in respect of form 2047. I have completed my declaration with this in mind, though how the French authorities process that information is really up to them.
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Thank you Idun, I take those points absolutely. However, as far as declaring foreign pension income on form 2047 of the tax return, the only distinction asked for is whether it is from a 'private' or 'public' source. My NHS pension is 'public' in that regard, as of course would be the UK state pension. I enter this income in box 1AM of form 2042, as it is both taxed in France and subject to social charges. Whether or not I and Mrs DD would be exempt from PUMA cotisations would depend on which boxes are referred to on the tax return by the powers that be in making their calculations. As far as I can see, UK state pension income would also go in box 1AM of 2042, though of course it is excluded from the section on social charges since it is exempt. As you say, there may be some higher communication between the relevant authorities in both countries regarding who is receiving UK state pension, which may make a difference. It won't be until PUMA becomes compulsory for ayants droit in 2020 that we will find which pensioners will or will not be exempt from cotisations, but I hold out a vague hope that the 7.4% of my NHS pension that I currently pay in social charges might start to count for something........
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Hi, my reading of the rules on PUMA contributions was that if you were in receipt of a retirement pension, there would be full exemption from PUMA cotisations both for you and your spouse/civil partner. Under the section on exemptions on the Urssaf website it includes:'les personnes ayant perçu une pension de retraite, une rente ou une allocation de chômage au cours de l'année. Il en est de même, lorsqu'elles sont mariées ou liées à un partenaire par un pacte civil de solidarité, pour l'autre membre du couple'.It doesn't appear to me that it is merely the pension income itself that would be was exempt. What isn't clear is whether occupational or private pensions count in the definition of 'pensioner' for those under state pension age. It seems however that the liability for and amount of PUMA cotisations will be derived with reference to the previous year's tax return. I suppose in that case whether you are classed as exempt as a pensioner would depend on which boxes on the return that they refer to. As has been previously discussed elsewhere on the forum, France-derived pension income is entered in box 1AS, whereas foreign pension income goes in either 1AL or 1AM, depending on whether is is taxable in France or taxed in the country of source. This distinction between 1AS and 1AL/AM I understand is made to assist with the practicalities of the move to PAYE in 2018. In any case, as well as French income tax, I already pay CSG, CDRS, etc on my NHS pension, so feel that should count toward something......
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Thanks, the doubt in my mind is because the official notes for completing form 2042 this year state:'Si en 2016, vous (ou un des membres du foyer) avez ouvert, utilisé ou clôturé des comptes bancaires à l’étranger, joignez à votre déclaration des revenus la déclaration no 3916 ou une note sur papier libre reprenant les mentions de cet imprimé et cochez la case 8UU'That to me is clearer in its meaning than form 3916, as it translates as 'If.........you have opened, closed or used foreign bank accounts.......' This seems in keeping with excluding dormant accounts when taken in conjunction with the bit on form 3916 which says 'Les comptes à déclarer sont ceux ouverts hors de France...............recevant habituellement en depôt des valeurs mobilières, titres ou espèces..... so translated roughly as 'those accounts open outside France..................habitually receiving deposits of stocks and shares, securities and cash' That said, given the potential fines, I think you're probably right to declare all if there's a doubt.......
Brisket
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