Panda
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Posts posted by Panda
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Hello Debra
Looking on immouniverse.fr (a french house buying forum) the term 'prorata de taxe foncière', comes up a lot. Many are kicking off about having to pay it and some suggest being taken to a tribunal if you don't pay. This all relies on the detail being in the acte de vente, we have bought (and sold) in the Vienne and the Charente with 4 different notaires, all have this in the acte. I think it is common place now but it must be notaire dependant and my comment on not being able to tell someone where to go when asked to pay should have said I guess that for us it's a legal requirement (and any one else where it is in the final acte).
I would state again though that in no way was this an agreement between the parties, we were told by the notaire in each case that it was our responsibility, we were not asked if we agreed. Equally when we sold the notaire didn't ask, do you want the buyer to pay their portion of the fonciere, it was stated as a fact that they would (this was a different notaire to the one we bought from)
Anywho, I'm bored of this subject now....wish I never stuck my oar in
I see you have a lake or fishing business, we do too ours is only a small one though (lake that is we haven't a fishing business), did you ever get coypu on the lake, we have a couple and we know of the issues,(this is our second purchase of house and lake), if you did how did you get rid of them??
Panda
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Hi Debra
I was not suggesting you could just bill someone, it is in the compromis and acte de vente that it is the new owners responsibility to pay tax fonciere from the date of completion. We are on our 4th purchase here and it's been in every one of them, could be a regional thing but I doubt that very much, it was never a 'do you accept to pay the tax fonc' conversation it was a 'as you know you are responsble for the tax fonciere' conversation 'from the date of completion' ....it's a legal requirement not something done on a whim... so I don't imagine you can tell someone where to go..
EDIT: and you're right if you search you can see the subject has been dicsussed a few times and following the timeline it looks like from around 2004 it became common practice to split the fonciere bill and this is specifed in the contracts of sale...in our case in the compromis I've just checked it's under charges and conditions generales, Impots et Taxes, states that the seller is free (from the date of completion) of taxes relating to property including the tax fonciere which for the year of the sale will be apportioned between the buyer and seller taking into account the date of completion..
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In answer to the mobile sim question, in an unlocked UK phone the French sim works fine, I know loads of people who do this without a problem. It is quite feasable to have one phone and two simm cards which you swap on the ferry depending in which direction you are travelling, if that's what your're after, lots of people do just that... the cost of the sim in an FT shop is about 30 euro's for a pay-as-you-go model, mind you they also had a fairly swish phone on offer which if you bought at the same time it was 49 euro's all in, so a new phone for 19 euro's (and 30 for the sim) so not bad either way..We did both, we bought one phone with sim as OH had an ancient phone and one for me to put in my fairly new UK mobile..
Perhaps others will know of cheaper places..we were in a bit of a hurry and didn't think the FT option was toooo expensive
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Hello
This is not the case for us, my husband is not registered as anything to do with my business, merely a dependent of mine as he is not working (he's renovating) and although RAM were a bit reluctant they did accept this and we pay one set of cotisations.
He will not be getting any pension I'm sure (nor will I as we won't have had enough years to gain one) but he does get the same health cover as me. We have a plumber friend and and electrician and both are the same, the wife is not registered as part of the business, this would be the same if I got a salaried job and my husband was not working, he would be dependent on my salary so I can't see how it's different just because you are self employed. Perhaps someone can point out what I'm missing here...
Pnda
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Hi All
Tax d'habitation can be reduced if you submit a tax return and are on a low income, ours was next to nothing last year because we had a low income in 2005. It's all a bit confusing but you are right hoddy the reduction has been discussed before, it is only Tax d'hab which is reduced on this basis fonciere remains the same.
On the number of people front, there is some kind of calculation based on number of people, if you read the first page of your bill there is a section numbered (2) Abbatements (allowances) and says personnes a charge, then par personne rang 1 ou 2, then next line 3 ou +, then a percentage .... have no idea what effect this has on the bill or how they know who lives in the house although the bill states occupants and has myself and husband listed and we have one son and the personne a charge section states one.....
Clear as mud...
Panda
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Hi Tresco
To add to the pressure, I can't imagine your cat minding this wee thing.. It would be better for the cat than a puppy, small but not as inquisitive! I would love another dog but my oldish current dog has no time at all for other dogs since his companion died and is really quite aggressive, I would not want to put any rescue dog through the pain of being rejected by him I am also a nervous wreck whenever there are other dogs about because I know either he will go for them or they for him.
I am going to wait a couple of years (he is 12 this year) and give him a nice life on his own, later I'm going to rescue a whole bunch of dogs.
Go on Mr Tresco, he looks so sweet.
Panda
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Hi All
It is perfectly normal for the fonciere to be split between the seller and the buyer, this has been the case in each purchase we've made. The bill goes to the person who was occupying the house on the 1st Jan, they then 'can' send the new owner a bill (normally a simple copy of the tax fonciere showing the split) for the part that starts on the day of the sale. So in your example if you buy on 1st May 2006 you 'could' receive a bill from the seller in Nov/Dec 2006 for the part of the bill from 1st May 2006 until 31 December 2006, ie the part of the year that you were resident in the house. In our 1st purchase whilst it was specifed in the acte de vente (and I think it always is) the seller did not bill us for the part owed by us but they could have (sale was late in the year and the amounts involved quite small).
We have just sold (feb) and we have every intention of billing the new occupier as it will be almost a full year and we also expect that the seller of the house we have just purchased will do likewise and bill us. For some bizarre reason the same does not apply to the tax d'habitation and the seller is always responsible the new owner taking over from the next 1st of Jan.
Hope that I have not made this more complicated now...
Panda
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Hi Matt
I was surprised at your quote regarding your wife being covered by your cotisations, everyone I know who works here has just the one income and share the same ss number with their partner and pay only the one set of cotisations to RAM or whom ever. How is your wife covered out of interest does she have to pay independently? I thought that RAM were a bit cautious with my case as it's me who works (female) and they were reluctant to have my OH on the same registration but I said if it were the other way around then you would accept it, she agreed and we now pay one set of cotisations and we are all covered (me, husband and son). My husband is also not registered as having anything to do with my business nor has anyone ever asked me to do this.
Regards
Panda
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Hi Miss Babs
We were in the Vienne now in the Charente (just moved), been in France for 4 years and bought the development property in year 1. It now returns around 12% on investment per annum but as I said it's not for the faint hearted, everyone I'm sure knows the issues of long term letting in France but we feel for the investment alone (ignoring the monthly income) it's worth it. Looking at it this way we will own the property out right in 15 years time and hopefully others will have contributed (if not paid completly) the mortgage by renting the appartments, we know we will get non payers etc. but we have taken out insurance against some of the pit falls and whilst it is never going to be fool proof it's as close as it can be, that and we have a good letting agent who insists on only the very best renters with good references and deals with all the paperwork and issues. For us it was a first punt into the development market and hopefully something for our future.
Can't stress enough before anyone jumps on me, it's not for everyone but we don't mind taking a risk, we've done it all our lives together, that's how we ended up here after all! I will let you know when we are on to our next project (and any issues with our first development which is currently fully let by paying customers..long may it continue!) Currently though we are up to our necks developing our own house, bit of shock that one after living here for 4 years in a lovely house but felt it was time to earn some money on the house we live in! The joys of a mobile home in April can not be described!
Panda
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Hi
We bought a very similar property but had the clause entered into the compromis that the sale would only complete if full planning was obtained. It's too late for you now to do this of course but in our case the permission has been given. We were advised to seek out an architect who is associated with the local DDE, architects work part time for the DDE in these parts, they work say 1 day per week per small DDE and the rest of the time they have a private practice. We therefore ended up using the architect who would have the job of approving, in effect, his own plans this way you know they are going to put a plan in with a good chance of being approved.Others have written on here that an architect is worth their weight in gold with regard to what can and can't be done within the contraints imposed, in you shoes I would seek out the local architect and gets his/her opinion on your chances. It's worth another try. As others have said there are lots of lakes and land for sale with no planning and the price is at least half of the price for the same plot with planning so whilst you may feel that you've been duped I expect that the price you've paid reflects in part the restrictions as it was originally thought non contructable..
Good luck with it.
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Hi
Looking forward to photo's and it would be better for me to take them at the same time and May would be perfect. I have no intentions of breeding so will have the deed done on the boy. I will go and read up on poisonous plants, we have 20 acres of land so could well be something nasty out there. I will look at getting a small shed or something like it, we have one largeish shed which might adapt although the chickens live in there too and they might not like house guests! I am very excited by the prospect, I'm sure I can manage hoof trimming, perhaps you could give me a lesson! I will likely be in your area before may and so will PM you for contact details so we can arrange things properly.
Thanks
Panda
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I think he saying he has seen clauses which state that should the rate of TVA change the artisan has the right to pass the increase on.... could be wrong but I've seen that clause from time to time.
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Hi
That's sounds promising then, we have a scenic so the boot is quite large. I would love to see some pictures if you have some. Do you want to rehome both in May or are you thinking you need to move the female sooner than that? What is their current shelter like, I would need to erect something suitable, not a problem but would like to know what they are used to. How do you restrict their movements currently is you land totally closed off? We need to get on an fence various areas but would again be interested in what they are used to.
Panda
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Hi
Firstly 'I don't believe it' as Victor would say, we want a couple of goats and have literally just moved from your area! I guess the next question how easy are they to transport and I wonder if there is a way to get them here? We are about 2.5 hours from Poitiers now but I would love to give them a home.. ..I've got acres of brambles just waiting for a goat! Is it Mum and baby you are rehoming or simply another female and baby..
Panda
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Hi WJT
In our case the devis have been for things that are fairly easy to quote for and get right, that may be why we have never had an increase. We have had 4 new heatings systems, 5 rewires, the rest of the work we've done ourself. I think an electrician who knows exactly how many plugs to wire etc should be able to accurately quote, same goes for a plumber, they know exactly what you want, number of radiators type of boiler etc. so there sould be no need for any changes.
Panda
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Hi
In our experience our 3 year old took about 5/6 months to say any french words but when he did he came out with whole sentences. I have discussed this with teachers since and they say that it si quite normal for a child at this age of development to just soak up the language, not really saying anything in the new language until they feel confident enough to converse freely. His teacher at that time spoke no english at all so everything said to him was in french. He went to a fairly large town school and I'm not sure that the size of class or mix of ages will have a lot of bearing on the situation and to move him if he's made some firends would be a bit of a shame.
Totally my own opinion but I think you should let him take up the language as comes naturally to him and eventually it will click. We are all different and the ability to learn a language can vary hugely. In your case it is probably not helped by the teacher speaking english although she will be doing this to be kind I'm sure. Perhaps ask her to only speak french to him from now own but overall I would relax about it and let him learn at his own pace.
Panda
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Hello
The artisans who frequent the forum should comment but in my experience (with mainly french artisans) I have never been charged more than the devis, which is the whole point of having one in my opinion! I can't see that the artisan would have any grounds for an increase unless there was a catch all in the devis which stated if the job turned out to be more work than originally thought he could make a further charge. If this kind of clause were present you should ask for a new devis to cover the extra cost should this situation arise.
Panda
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Hi
We have found CIO or CIC as they are sometimes called very flexible. We own properties (4 appartments one house) and have taken a mortgage for more than 100% for the flats in order to fund the renovation. They were happy mainly because we got an imobillier to state the rental value post reno work was X and 'X' more than covered the mortage payments. They were not interested in any other income and did no other checks and have no charge on our own house, decision was made pretty much on the spot. We had previously spent 4 months trying to convince Abbey Natioanl as once was, now in France under a different name, they were a nightmare and wanted so much info it was a joke.
I would recommend going into a local CIO branch near to where the property you are after is, get the selling agent to put some numbers together, if straight reno/resell then get them to give the post renovation value, if for rental the rental value, if you can prove that the project can pay for itself you should get a positive response.
The best news, our flats have now been valued at a good deal more than we paid for them (including renovation costs), we got a great deal when we bought them (which is the time you make your money as they say) we now rent them out long term, not always an easy option but we have it as covered as it can be and as long as 1 is rented it pays the mortgage.
We are now looking for another project and the bank have said they will support it we may renovate and sell on or get another set of appartments, it's not risk free and is not for the faint hearted. We do know the issues re CGT etc. and it all needs taking into account when calculating profit. We've done much of the work ourselves on the first project and contrary to popular belief you can claim tax relief in these circumstances, we submitted our bills for the renovation work which are a combination of artisans and bills for materials for the jobs we did ourselves , all have been accepted and our tax bill was zero for last year because of it. My notaire has also confirmed that were we to sell the flats some of the work we did ourself they would allow against CGT, not paint etc. but where we bought a full set of new windows form a registered french building company, that kind of thing.
Panda
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Hello
For the SW league they are mostly south Charente and Dordogne, teams are Bordeaux, Angouleme, St Aulaye, Damazan..... There are also some teams further north, Saumur (loire) etc. I would guess the Charente/Dordogne might be a bit too far west and south for you? My husband has been known to travel for 3 hours for a game but then he is a bit cricket mad. We have moved to within 40 mins of his main ground so there is less travelling now, not that that was the only criteria for the move but it was certainly considered. I'm all for ensuring you can get the most out of life and for my OH that includes a game of cricket whenever possible, each to their own I guess.
Panda
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Hello
Well the straight answer is yes there are, do you play cricket by any chance as there are a few teams around these parts who are always looking for players, they play in the french league and also play touring UK teams from time to time. It might be a way to get out and meet more people and contrary to popular belief there are french players as well as english, there is also a french national side who also come over for a game occasionally.
Panda
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Hello
Well, now you're asking, umm generally I'm thinking largish gathering of like minded souls, stars would be nice, alchohol the odd bit of dancing for those who care to, poerhaps a bring a bottle and a tent party (to save driving).... But hey you're the one who was looking for company, what did you have in mind, what prompted the post??
Panda
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Hello Vicki
I think the requirement for the jab varies between departments (or even schools), it is required here in the Charente and in the Vienne and we had it done soon after arriving, it's a good idea to go along to the doctor and have him check you are up to date with all vacinations as they differ in timing here, my son had to have a couple. You also need assurance scholaire which you can get from whom ever provided your house insurance or the school usually has one you can join, the bank, lots of options but you need to take a copy of the certificate along to the shcool when registering. It's quite cheap around 20 euro's I think for the year.
Good luck with it
Panda
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Hello
There are some 30s/40s and we are a couple of them, we are in the Charente though and so are the others we have met, would be about an hour or so from Limoges I reckon, would travel for a good party, got one in mind???
Panda
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Hi
Your situation is very different to mine, selling the barn for more than the orinignal buy price of the whole property will mean there will be a chunk of CGT to pay however you look at it. I was selling two houses, bought as one property and had to pay CGT on the second.
As a pure example you could maybe say the house was bought for 35k the barn for 15k. You are selling for 60k so the difference is 45k, you will pay 16%( 27%, if you live in France) CGT on this 45k (less a proportion of the buying fees, legal and agency). As the 60k is really pure profit I don't think that's too bad
Later Edit after a cup of tea and a think.....
I'm wondering now if this is really correct as the property you are selling is not a habitation maybe the rules are different, what I'm thinking is of course it could never be anyone's principal residence so maybe the rules are different, maybe there is no CGT on such a sale, lots of people are selling off barns, someone must know.. My experience is ony in selling a house which 'could' have been my main residence if you see my thinking.
Panda
Taxe fonciere and taxe d'habitation
in French Finance
Posted
Hello Spg
Sorry it's one of my favourites and I clearly should take more notice of the actual URL, not sure how I came across it but we rent appartments too so maybe I googled for something when I started longterm letting, it was the forum where I saw the prorata fonciere stuff.
Panda