[Driving licence stolen British]

Something that has worked for me a few times, after being frustrated beyond belief by these multiple-choice phone menus, is to simply ignore the "choices."  Don't wait, just press 1 (or whatever the first option is).  If it's a multi-level menu you may have to do this more than once.

You will probably get a human being quite soon, and the remarkable thing - at least, in my limited experience - is that he or she will probably be willing to help you.  I have never yet had someone say "Sorry, you pressed the wrong option, I can do nothing for you" - or anything like that.

Sometimes the person can deal with your question.  Sometimes he or she says "Oh, for that you need the X department.  Just a minute, I'll transfer you."  In either case, you're already ahead.

 

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="Russethouse"]How long has your sister been in Canada ?[/quote]I don't know exactly, but a very long time - why do you ask?

If you're making the point that she should have known before she went, I would agree - and she probably would, too.  But I don't accept that something that is unjust or unfair should never be corrected as long as it was in the small print. 

Perhaps it depends on how clearly the "freezing" was explained to people asking for pension information.  An honest disclosure would have said something like "if you emigrate to countries X, Y or Z, your pension will probably become less valuable every year until you die."

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

Betty, your argument about the "special cases" can be turned upside down.  My argument is that one specific group of countries is not a special case, and residents there should not be treated differently from those in the rest of the world.

I can't expand on this without repeating myself, so I'll stop also.

[Killed by a Chasseur while picking mushrooms]

Bugsy, your signature line needs amending.  Growing old is unfortunately not inevitable when there are hunters around.

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

Betty, your question in answer to my question is a good question.

I don't think there's anything new about the pension rules themselves.  What is new is that the pensions office is considering whether it should draw people's attention to the indexing anomaly when it is asked to give a pension forecast.

At least, that's how I read the original story.

And I don't think it's taken anybody 40 years to see it as an issue.  My relative in Canada saw it as an issue long before retirement, and still sees it as an issue on every visit to the shops.

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="you can call me Betty"]Jeez...I think I've said, at least 3 times now, that I was grateful,

happy to pay my dues and that "morally" I thought this was perfectly

correct.[/quote]You have, and I understand. 

But what you still haven't answered is this: if we compare two people, both receiving the UK old-age pension, one living in France and the other in Australia, why should one get the inflation adjustment and the other not?

Perhaps I should have asked this question about eight pages back.

By the way, I do know about the agreements that provide the legal basis for the difference.  But I think we're discussing what is "fair" or "right" or "moral" in the pension entitlement.  If the political will existed, the agreements could be amended.

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]And you obviously think that I, and those who still live and pay taxes in the UK despite being on incomes which are (well, mine is..) actually going down both in actual monetary terms AND value should be delighted to subsidise people living in Canada, whilst we see every area of public service and publicly funded provision being cut..[/quote]No, I don't think that at all.

The only question I'm arguing about is this: given that the state is committed to provide a non-means-tested pension, based on age, determined in sterling, and adjusted annually on the basis of a specified price index, should certain people be denied the adjustment solely because of where they live?

I see it as a yes-or-no question, although you proposed an in-between answer, namely that they should get an adjustment, but that it should be related to their local currency.  I don't think that is logical and I've tried to explain why.

However, I'm not arguing about the rights and wrongs of pension indexation, or whether state pensions should be funded (and if so, how), or whether a pension should be means-tested or linked to other benefits like health care, or whether you should get unemployment benefit if you have a working spouse.  All of these are important and interesting questions, but I don't think they're relevant to the topic. 

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]If someone can convince me that a person in this situation merits receiving a full index-linked UK pension, convince away....[/quote]

Betty, the short answer is that all people receiving a UK state pension have morally the same rights, no matter whether they live in the UK, or France, or Canada.

The idea that your entitlement should depend on where you choose to live, or where you choose to spend the money, is bizarre. 

The idea that your entitlement should depend on what other income you have is perhaps not bizarre, although I personally wouldn't agree.  But if you support that, then - again - you have no reason to discriminate based on geography.

You obviously think that my relative in Canada (who doesn't actually have much other income) should continue to receive the same fixed amount of pounds throughout retirement.  I wish the two of you could meet on neutral ground.

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Firstly as I understand it, Private pension schemes are run in a different way, funds are invested and pensions paid from the returns on those investments.[/quote]But that's irrelevant.  I think it's generally accepted that state pensions are usually not funded (whether they should be is a different question).  What we're discussing is whether the government's promise of indexation should apply to everyone who's entitled to the state pension.

[quote]In addition the company in your example would have most likely put its prices up to cover its outgoings....[/quote]Of course.  I said exactly that in my assumptions.  That's the answer to the question "where will the money come from?"

[quote]... in a perfect world I would agree that pensioners everywhere would get the increases...[/quote]Well, I can only repeat my point, that these "increases" are not really increases.  If your pension is not adjusted for inflation, then its real value is falling; and if the real value of a pension is falling, then the real cost of paying it is also falling.

The government doesn't want overseas residents to understand that.  If it were understood, the statement "we can't afford to index pensions for non-residents" would be recognized as BS.

A final question: if you think it's right to index UK state pensions received in France or Spain, why should they not be indexed if received in Canada or Australia?  I know that there are agreements which supposedly provide the legal reason, but this thread is mainly about what is fair.

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Where do you think the extra funds to pay a bigger pension are going to come from ?[/quote]

Rh, we're not talking about a "bigger" pension here: it's more pounds, but the pound has depreciated.

Consider this: imagine a company that in addition to its current expenses (materials, wages, utilities, etc) is paying pensions to former employees.  Suppose that in a particular year there is general inflation of 5%, but nothing physically changes: it produces and sells the same number of products, it employs the same number of people, it consumes the same amount of materials and energy.  But because of inflation, the prices of all those things increase by 5%. 

Now the company says to its retired employees "sorry, we can't afford to index your pensions - where's the money coming from?"

It's not difficult to spot the fallacy, is it?

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

Going back to the original question of freezing UK pensions paid outside the EU: 

I should declare an interest.  I have a relative in Canada who has suffered from the "freeze" rule ever since retirement.  The effect is serious and will of course get worse each year.  Betty's proposal is better than nothing, but it would still would have grossly unfair results.

Let's use the example of Japan, where inflation in the last year or so has been significantly different from the UK: actually close to zero, but let's call it 1% to illustrate the arithmetic.  Since inflation in the UK during that time has been around 5%, you would expect the Japanese yen to have increased in value against the pound, and it has. Theoretically the exchange rate should have changed by around 4%, and that's roughly what has happened, from about 130 to about 125.  (It doesn't always work as neatly as that, of course, but it tends to happen in the long run.)

Suppose you have a UK pension and you came to live in Japan a year ago.  Every pound of your pension would have bought you 130 yen when you arrived: a year later you need slightly more yen (1%) just to be able to buy the same stuff.

According to Betty's proposal your sterling pension should be increased by 1%.  So for each pound of your original pension you will now get £1.01.  At the current exchange rate of 125, each pound of your original pension amount will get you 126.25 yen.  So your real income has fallen from 130 yen to 126.

UK pensioners in the EU would get an increase of 5%.  So the UK government has saved money by paying you only 1% more instead of 5%, and you've paid the price.  How can you call that fair?

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="I"]Inflation refers to a currency.  If you have a pension determined in sterling, it should be indexed on the basis of the inflation of sterling.[/quote]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]I wholeheartedly agree. However, at the moment, the OP and the Telegraph article are requesting that people have their pensions index linked to UK inflation irrespective of where they choose to live in the world. I don't agree.[/quote]

But that's exactly what I said.  "Inflation of sterling" means the same as "inflation in the UK" - where else could you measure sterling prices?  So I'm not sure whether you agree or disagree. 

But the point is that if the UK inflation index moves from 100 to 103, the state's obligation is to preserve the real value of a sterling pension by a 3% increase in the nominal amount. 

If you live in Australia, the real value of your UK pension - i.e. your purchasing power - is affected by two other things: (1) inflation of the Australian dollar, and (2) the exchange rate.  But there is no reason for the UK government to make any adjustment for either of those things: they are the consequences of your personal decision.

(When I say "you" of course I don't mean you.)  

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

Sorry, accidental duplication.

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]...if I was pressed to come up with an equitable solution I'd say that at best I'd suggest people living outside the UK had their pensions index linked to inflation in the UK, or the country they were residing: whichever was the lower.[/quote]With respect, that doesn't make sense.  Inflation refers to a currency.  If you have a pension determined in sterling, it should be indexed on the basis of the inflation of sterling.

If you live in a country with a different currency and a different inflation rate, the exchange rate should - in theory - compensate for the difference.  In practice, of course, it won't happen exactly like that, and you will either gain or lose, but that's not the responsibility of the UK government: it was your decision to emigrate.   

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"] As things stand, people migrating to the EU ... are enjoying an advantage only afforded to them by virtue of their choice of overseas location. People in Australia, etc. are already not being treated equally.[/quote]

As I understand it, nothing is going to change in the pensions themselves; all that's changing is that more information about this statutory fraud will be given to anyone asking for a pension forecast.  

[quote]Again, not being antagonistic, but pensioners in EU countries haven't to my knowledge until now ever shouted "man the barricades" to ensure a fair deal for their ex-compatriots in the far-flung reaches of the commonwealth. I don't even know if those in the far-flung..blah blah have even ever tried to man the barricades themselves.[/quote]

Well, they do organize petitions.  There was one not long ago that was organized in Canada, for instance, to which I actually added my signature.  But I'm not sure that politicians are greatly moved by petitions.

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]I don't see why I should now find myself having to continue working for another 6 years above the age I originally was led to expect I could retire...[/quote]

I appreciate that you're not actually making that argument for yourself, but some people do, and I think there's a valid reply. 

For most people, if you're having to work for some years longer than originally expected, it's  because you are now likely to live longer than was expected when your pension contributions were originally calculated. 

And the difference is multiplied by an effect that the government doesn't explain very well, in my opinion.  If your life expectancy when you started work was 75, and it's now 80, and you retire at 65, then your contributions (in theory) originally had to fund only 10 years of pension income, whereas now they will have to fund 15 years.  That's a 50% increase in the cost of your pension. 

Where is that money supposed to come from?

I don't think expatriate pensions can affect the basic problem significantly, although it's disgraceful to freeze some of them for no good reason.

[Rendezvous or Rendez-vous]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Its for a pottery club magazine article that introduces 3 people to the readership...[/quote]

As you didn't tell us which language you're writing in, I don't think anyone can advise you!

But I agree with what has been said: in standard English "rendezvous" doesn't have a hyphen; in standard French it does.

By the way, "its" does need an apostrophe.

[question]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]I could and did find chapter and verse about UK residents not being able to use non-UK registered vehicles in the UK.[/quote]

This is exactly the response I got from the DVLA when I asked the question directly, a couple of years ago.  However, the European Commission doesn't agree.  Who has the final word, I don't know, but if anyone's interested here is the exchange of messages:

I wrote to the DVLA -

I have a question about the temporary use of a foreign-registered car in the UK. I am resident in France and own a French-registered car. I intend to use it for a visit to the UK (lasting not more than a month). I have a son who is resident in the UK. Is he allowed to drive the car occasionally while it is there? He has a valid UK licence for the vehicle category, and would be covered by my French insurance contract (my insurer has confirmed this). Your website tells me that a foreign-registered car may not be "used" by a UK resident in the UK, but I am not sure whether occasional driving, with my permission, is legally the same as "use". Even if it is, it seems to me that there must be some exceptions (e.g. for rental cars and company fleet vehicles) and I wonder whether there is an exception that would cover my son's case.

They answered that there was no exception that would allow my son to drive.

Having made a few more enquiries, I then wrote:

 

Thank you for your reply.  However, I have subsequently come across a statement by the [European]Directorate-General, Taxation and Customs Union, which appears to qualify this prohibition.  The document reference is (TAXUD/255/02) and the following quotation is from page 16:

"Here again, however, the prohibition has to be interpreted reasonably.

One cannot prohibit a holder of this exemption from carrying out the routine tasks of daily life or responding to duly substantiated exceptional circumstances. For instance, the Commission considers that the prohibition on lending such a car does not apply when the holder is on board but the car is being driven by a resident of the Member State of temporary "importation". Neither can one treat as prohibited lending a situation where a resident of one Member State, temporarily visiting his family or friends in another Member State, allows a member of the family or a friend to make occasional use of the car."  (my emphasis)

The last sentence exactly describes the situation I had in mind when I asked the question.  Would the DVLA regard this as permitting my son's occasional use of the car in the UK?  

I got the following helpful reply:

Thank you for your email.

I am afraid, as stated on the website, the vehicle should only used by the foreign resident.

Regards

It seems that nothing has changed.

[Freezing of expats British OAP's resident outside the EU]

The annual pension increase is supposed to compensate for inflation: in other words, without the increase the real value of the pension will fall.   Which means that the real cost to the government will fall.

So the usual government excuse that "they can't afford it" is, as we say in France, boule chite.  A lie, in fact.

[SPIV .... Perhaps nobody told them what it means in the UK]

[quote user="Frederick"]... it [the SPIV fund] is expected to hold some of the dodgy debts of "impaired" nations such as Portugal and Greece, and fund itself by issuing bonds to investors...[/quote]

Once upon a time there were some investment banks in the USA which took over "subprime" (i.e. dodgy) debts from mortgage companies and funded themselves by issuing bonds to investors...

The collapse was only three years ago.  Has everyone forgotten?

[What do next of kin do when someone dies in France intestate?]

I don't know the answer to this, but my first reaction was to think that most people in France probably die intestate.  A will has no effect if it doesn't comply with French inheritance law, so I would guess that most people don't bother to make one.

Does anyone know whether this is true?  If it is, there must be a well-established procedure on which any notary should be able to advise you.

[Is the UK OAP paid gross or net to French residents?]

If you are resident in France the UK state OAP should be paid gross, because it is taxable only in France. This has nothing to do with UK allowances; it's determined by the tax treaty.

If UK tax has been deducted, you have the right to reclaim it from HMRC, but it's up to you to take the necessary steps.  The subject has been covered on this forum, several times.

[Tense? (and a bit stressed too!)]

NormanH: I would go further than that and say that the passé composé would be not just acceptable, but normal.  I think the "past historic" is really quite unusual in French speech (unless, of course, the speaker is reading from a text).

[French Kindle on the cards?]

Some time ago, before Kindle became available on the French site, I questioned Amazon because I didn't fully understand their policy about where a Kindle owner would be able to buy Amazon's e-books.  This is the essential part of their reply:

If you purchase the Kindle from Amazon.com, you will be able to purchase book  [I think they meant "books"]  only from Amazon.com.

If you purchase and register your Kindle device on Amazon.co.uk, you will have access to Kindle content on Amazon.co.uk only.

However, they added the following:

You have the option to migrate to Amazon.com if you were going to travel outside of the UK. You can do this by changing your country setting on your "Manage Your Kindle" page to an address outside of the UK, this will prompt you to then migrate to Amazon.com.

This will allow you to have access to Amazon.com Kindle content and you will be able to keep your Amazon.co.uk content.

You can in turn, migrate back to Amazon.co.uk when back in the UK again.

If you purchase the Kindle device from Amazon.com, you will only have access to Kindle content on Amazon.com but you have the option again here to migrate to Amazon.co.uk when in the UK.

This suggests that in fact you will be able to buy e-books from any of their sites if you are willing to go through a "migration" procedure.  

It would be interesting to know how much real difference there is between the lists of available books on the various sites.

[French Kindle on the cards?]

[quote user="sid"]Would you buy the reader itself from UK or France? Not many (comparatively) e-books on the French site, I'm looking for English titles, and on the US site a different selection but not as good as on the UK site.[/quote]

Are you sure about that?  According to the current sales blurb on three Amazon sites, the number of e-books available is -

UK: "over 750,000"

France: 825,000

USA: "over 1 million"

Did you find any information about how many of these are English?  I didn't, although the French total of 825,000 is said to include only 35,000 French books.