UlsterRugby1999

[quote user="Gardian"]Try to get a helping hand when removing the old one - potentially hernia-inducing![blink][/quote] Under normal circumstances I'd laugh at that but having acquired my first (and last I hope) hernia towards the end of the year, I'll follow your sound advice. When can you make it here. [;-)][Www][;-)]

[quote user="Chancer"] Resistance Steatite. I am not convinced that they are of benefit in hard water areas as th ballon seems to sludge/calc up long before the element burns out, I dont think that they reduce the formation of calcaire either. A water filter wont help you IMHO but an adoucisseur will. Why dont you buy a new one, fit it and then you can tinker with your old one to your hearts content, if you manage to reclaim it you will then have a spare to fit in another 5 years.[/quote] Thank you to everyone for your input. I appreciate it all no matter how big or small. I have raced off to Poitiers this morning and bought a 200 Ltr ballon Resistance Steatite along with a new Groupe de Securite Teflonne. While I understand what you say Chancer re the water filter system we havent had any furring in the kettle since it went in so I'll run with it and see. At least its better than what was there prior to the filter going in recently and hopefully between the 2 new elements and the filter system I might have half a chance of getting more than 4 or 5 years out of a ballon. Good luck everyone. Paul

I knew what you meant young Quillan - I'm going to run the diagnostics over the weekend and see where that takes me. Then, at the same time, I'm going to watch the YouTube video to learn how to JUMP UP & DOWN  [;-)][:D]

[quote user="tegwini"] Cripes - lots of virtual 'what-noting'   'ere! But, thank you Ulster Rugby,  I was away in France/Rome when it was first posted, and would never have seen it, and I really like it. Reminds me of school concerts, especially the 'staff concerts' we used to give to raise funds for charity. Shows too that a 'thugbby' fan can also be a bit cultured !  Regards Tegwini[/quote] That'll virtually be a compliment then [:D][;-)][:D]

[quote user="Gardian"] UR99 ................. I had exactly the same problem as you about a year ago.  Hard water area too.  I decided to replace the thing and be done with it: 150 litre tank and one of those 'elements' that don't touch the water (can't remember the name for it).  The whole lot, incl a new safety valve was just over €200 I think (Leroy Merlin). Afterwards I did an autopsy on the old one, partly out of interest and partly because it was too heavy and cumbersome to get in to the car!  I reckon that I was losing about 40% water capacity because of the crap inside it: crucially, it would have been quite difficult to remove in situ because it was like a sort of gooey mush. Unless you're a wizz at plumbing, these sort of jobs always take longer than they should and being without hot water when you need it is never popular!  Didn't regret the full change rather than a bodge-up and no problems since (once I'd fixed the leak caused by my initial amateurish plumbing!)  Oh, and bags of hot water when there are 4 or 5 of us in the house.   [/quote] Starman Gardian - I had hoped not to do this but I kind of guessed that it would come to that. Can anyone tell me the name of the ballon where the element doesnt touch the water. Is this the blindee type that Chancer mentioned. This area is so water hard it appears as you watch it. Or will the filter system that I have now installed to the cold feed for the CE keep me out of trouble.

[quote user="Clair"]You're virtually thanked and I'm virtually blushing [:P] [/quote] Tis about as good as it virtually gets then [kiss][kiss]

[quote user="Department71"]Ulster, Might be an idea to try and get a new gasket before you strip it down, we had an old Chauffe'au once about the same age as yours. I had to take the bottom plate off, the gasket was stuck to the metal due to age, although I managed to remove the gasket the thing was never fully water tight again as I had to reuse the old gasket. Just an idea. Steve[/quote] Sound advice Steve - thanks for that. [quote user="Chancer"] If you have the non blindée type where the resistance is in direct contact with the water you can just remove the element. For the other type I am not sure as I dont know whether the blinding sleeve is removeable or a fixed part of the cylinder, I have a few in stock so could have a look but it should be clear to you when you remove the insulation cover.[/quote] Thanks again Chancer - I'll do a wee bit of research before I start I think.

[quote user="Clair"]http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1941935/ShowPost.aspx [:)] [/quote] Oh well - at least we get a wee laugh from it. Isnt the internet just the best thing ever. By the way Clair - if this is virtually you - then I virtually like you lots. [:$][:D][:$]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCFCeJTEzNU Very clever and very funny too. Enjoy.

[quote user="Chancer"] Its a purge valve used to empty the cylinder, it lifts the pressure release valve off its seat and allows the water to flow but in a stream (when fully opened) rather than a drip, drip as when the BDC is heating. In a hard water area the drip drip leaves deposits of calc on the valve seat which in time makes it leak starting with dribble and eventually a stream. If caught at the dribble stage opening the  valve will often scour the calc from the vale seat and fix the leak but you will find thereafter that you will have to do this at regular intervals hence the recommendation to do it once a month from new. It also verifys that the pressure release valve does in fact work which is very important as the cylinders can and will explode without it. The purge valve is the round tapered knurled plastic knob on the group de securité and you need a relatively strong grip to use it.[/quote] Thanks Chancer - that makes clear sense to me. We are, indeed, in a very hard water area. Based on some of the earlier comments I rather suspect that when I empty the tank over the weekend to look inside it and around the element I am going to find some trouble. With this in mind is it possible to actually get inside the ballon to clear calc depositis away and is it a case of undoing the element from its seat and accessing that way? Or - is it a case if it is calc'ed up that I must simply dispose of the ballon and replace it with another one?

[quote user="Quillan"] If I were you I would contact the tech support help desk. There is no way this should be happening, its either the box, the line or something at their end. If it were me I would be jumping up and down. The last time I had to do anything to my box was when there was a  power cut and the phone line didn't come 'up', a quick reset and everything was back to normal. Other than that I have probably only reset it about once in a year, in fact it was so long ago I can't remember exactly when it was. One things for sure though, reading all these issues about Neuf, SFR, Teleconnect etc makes me glad I am with Orange. One possible reason why you get a problem with speed and phone calls in extreme cold weather is that the lines physically sag from post to post which in turn reduces the cross sectional area of the copper cable and effectively makes it longer thus changing the characteristics of the cable with the effect of down grading the line quality in some cases.[/quote] My dear Quillan you know that we Ulstermen NEVER jump up and down (except when we win a Grand Slam [;-)]). I would contact the helpdesk but I want to ensure that it isnt my equipment (so to speak) before I get launched into some youngster who will struggle with my French spoken strewn with Ulsterisms. Its the intermittence of the fault that confuses me most or perhaps this is why I should be looking at the line/router direction as the equipment would either fail or not surely ????

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]I've experienced similar things on my Livebox phone too, although not to the extent you are talking about. I put it down to the adverse weather we've been having.[/quote] We have come to this conclusion too and I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head especially with what we have had over the past few weeks but I cannot figure why it is only in the evening. [quote user="Frenchie"] For some reason, I sometimes lose my internet connection with my neufbox, (    bout once a day!!), I unplug it, wait for about 20 seconds, plug it again, then it works again in most cases.. sometimes not, and I just have to be patient ( which I am in no way!! ) , til it works again.. Has anyone experienced this too?[/quote] No Frenchie - the internet might slow down from time to time (hardly surprising when you consider that we might have 4 or more PC's connected) but never lost the internet connection. It is just the phone with us and it could last for a few hours. There is no fix that we have found so far and as I say even rebooting the router doesnt help. [:(]

We have a 2Mb package through SFR and our Neufbox for over one year or so. We have several PC's connected by WiFi and generally there is no problem even when 2, 3 or 4 of them are all on line either from surfing or networking. No complaints from that aspect. In addition, we also have our telephone system run via VoiP using WiFi connected phones of which there are four units. The problem, which has started over the past 2-3 weeks is that the phone quality disintegrates into scrambled gibberish and this is usually (I think) in the late afternoon and evening. We can hear the folks on the other end clearly but they, often, cannot hear a word we are saying. Its strange that it isnt all the time. I've tried resetting the router but this has little or no effect. Is there any way to test the set up to help me determine if it is the router or the phones.

[quote user="suein56"][quote user="DaveandOlive"]....  if you can not get at the valve .......then how do you give it ...its monthly twist to clean it ???        [/quote] What monthly twist to clean it? Our chauffe-eau is 14.5 years old and it has never been touched at all. Crikey, poor thing must be suffering from neglect.[/quote] Merciful God in Heaven - Sue you saved me asking the question. Do I need to twist it. I never knew. What does this twist do? Just when you thought it was safe to relax Dave - whats with this twist thing? [8-)][8-)]

[quote user="DaveandOlive"] hi ok                  so the stack pipe is ok ..... must be the groupe de security    ..... we hope ... have you felt the drain getting warm from this ??                               Dave[/quote] To do this I need to dismantle half of the utility room. This is on the weekend work list so I'll get to do it then. In the meantime, thanks for your help Dave and to everyone else for your input. I appreciate it all. Paul

[quote user="DaveandOlive"] hi ok              If you turn off the cold water feed to the tank and the hot water still runs a bit when you open a hot tap ...there is a hole in it      ie      it will empty  the tank depending on how far up the pipe the hole is                       Dave[/quote] Morning Dave - I turned off the cold feed and tried the hot water taps. Apart from a tiny drip for a second or two there was nothing. It was as if I had shut off the hot feed also.

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]As an aside, why is that I cannot quote you. I get the non matching quote blocks in post thingy - only for Dave though [8-)][/quote]Because of the "&" in Dave&Olive's username. When quoting, either remove it or replace it with "and".[/quote] Thank you Clair. Life is just one continual learning curve. [:)]

Thanks Dave - I'll do the test in the morning. As an aside, why is that I cannot quote you. I get the non matching quote blocks in post thingy - only for Dave though [8-)]

Good man yourself Dave. Even a thicko like me can understand that explanation. Thanks for making it easy to follow. AS for the stack pipe, how can I tell. This weekend coming I intend to empty the tank (my MIL will really love me know) and take out the element and check for calc etc. Will I be able to see the pipe from there and is it repairable? AnOther - sorry if I have sounded thicker than normal, I understood your point but on our HC system nothing happens to change over from HP to HC it simply carries on and our facture shows us what we have consumed via each type of charging unit. There is no switch over or anything like that and all electrical appliances which were running prior to 21:45 automatically consume HC units from 21:46 until 05:45. To set the CE as you rightly suggest I would need to include a timer, presumably in the Cons Unit on the buzz bar, and set it to come on at, as you say, 3:00 and go off at 8:00 or whatever. My problem at the moment is that I do not know how long it takes for the ballon to be completely filled with water heated to the set temperature. During the testing period, I simply flicked on the disjoncteur at 21:50 and flicked it off at 6:30 when we got up. Not rocket science but close enough. Either way, we were not getting a full days hot water supply from the tank so either it was losing it as Dave suggests (which may prove to be the reason) or the element and or ballon are so clogged up that it wasnt heating a full 250 litres. I guess I'll find out at the weekend.

Mmmmm - Dave - thanks for that. Makes it look worse I guess. Can you explain your last comment in more simple English. [8-)][8-)] Cheers. If you mean the security valve at the base of the ballon, I'm certain that it has little or no water coming from it.

Thanks Chancer - and while I dont understand the science behind a lot of all of this, I do understand your logic. This coming weekend has already been set aside for the tank work as you have suggested so that'll be an interesting exercise. 250 litres simply isnt lasting. Yesterday, for example, with the ballon having been on during the entire 8 hourse of HC time, there were 3 medium length showers, a few hand washes, NO dish washes from the tap and 1 or 2 small sinks of water used. In the evening when my MIL ran the hot water for her bath, there was literally no hot (even warm) water. Surely we didnt use 250 litres plus as described.

[quote user="suein56"][quote user="UlsterRugby1999"] Sue, I got a wee bit lost with the *'s but I take it that you have HC between the two sets of times you mentioned. Despite this, do you keep your CE running all the time or is it only using HC hours.[/quote] Sorry to be so confusing, looking back at my post now I think I was more tired than I realised!. Our CE heats up only during off-peak hours ie for us 2am till 7.15am and 2.20pm till 5.05pm. And that provides enough hot water for 5 people, all having daily showers, and including washing up. [quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]how big is your ballon? What Kw is the heater? [/quote] 200 ltrs and 2.2 Kw[/quote] Brilliant Sue. many thanks for the response. Tired - I understand tired. [:D]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="UlsterRugby1999"] we'll have consumed in the region of 2800 - 3000€ worth of electricity from both HP and HC units [/quote] Are you all electric ? Our whole fuel bill for a year is about 1/2 that, that's oil for CH, leccie, and bottled gas for the kitchen hob. OK there are only the 2 of us but we're not particularly thrifty. HP & HC units ?[/quote] No to the all electric question AnOther. We burn wood and I've recently installed reversible air-con units but thats it. During my test over the past few weeks, nothing changed in terms of normal usage of electricity. The ONLY thing that was altered was the times that the CE was connected and this was only during the 8 hours of the HC plus approx 1 hour during the HP times. This reduced our consumption by 105Kws on a weekly basis. I would continue the test but MIL is starting to smell a tad and MOH is about to kill me. [;-)][:D] 105 Kw per week equates to 5460 units per annum and while I'm not suggesting that this would be a truely representative figure of the potential saving, it would still amount to a considerable saving - and - all of it would have come from the amount of time the CE was NOT connected to the power supply. So, either we use/waste an incredible amount of water or my CE is knackered or calc'd up or both. Try this thread - its the original one that was discussed last year.  http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1/1843644/ShowPost.aspx#1843644 THis is why I asked, originally, about the BricoDepot (sorry guys) system which seemed to be within my range financially.

[quote user="cooperlola"]Ulster Rugby this does certainly seem a bit rum!  We run our chauffe-eau on HC as you do and it gives us at least one bath a day plus keeps my cleaner (paid for by thelorry driver who caused my accident btw, I am not rolling in money) happy enough and she can't walk past anything without wiping it.   We do wash clothes and dishwash from cold during the night but have never found the ballon to be inadequate except if we have visitors. Like you, solar,heat pumps and the lord knows what would be delightful but the capital to do it ain't always there for those trying to save tens of euros on utility bills, is it? Happy to have a chat about carbon emissions any day, anywhere, any time, Andrew!  I don't know if I'm a believer or not but even if human beings aren't the cause of climate change it does not give us an excuse to be profligate with the earth's resources imo.  But it's tough to expect those who are already struggling financially to make capital investments to make up for the sins of others - many of whom are rich corporations, not poor hard-working individuals or retirees who have already done their bit.  I'll shut up now.[:D] [/quote] Thanks cooperlola - how big is your ballon? What Kw is the heater? We have myself and my wife, my MIL, a 16 year old lad and an 11 year old girl. This equates to 4 showers, 1 bath (sometimes [;-)] ) 1-2 small dish washes and the usual hand washes etc after the loo. Normal enough I'd guess and the blurb when we were buying the CE stated that 250lts was about right for a family of 5. Maybe its, in part, down to the calc on the element not heating it up as quickly and as efficiently as it should. I dont know. As an aside, our power consumption is such that (without having completed the final end of year stats yet) we'll have consumed in the region of 2800 - 3000€ worth of electricity from both HP and HC units, hence my attempts to reduce not only my carbon boot print (in my case) but the burden on my wee pocket.

[quote user="AnOther"]What temperature is the chauffe'au thermostat set to, the hotter it is the longer it's going to last. Is the baloon new or old, newer ones will be far better insulated, a key factor in retaining your expensive heat. [quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]This would give us an annual reduction in consumption of 4368Kw. At a cost of 0.0839 (HT) this would save us circa 438.1€ (TTC) per annum. No mean sum.[/quote] All savings are to the good of course but I'd say roughly €1/day is a very small price to pay to keep a MIL in hot water [6] [/quote] The temp of the CE was reduced from max to approx 67 degrees C. This was done following suggestions from the previous thread I mentioned. The tank is circa 4 years old but there is every likelihood that our very hard water has caused some lime scale clogging. We now have a water filter system in place but there may well have been some lime scale clogging before this was installed. [quote user="suein56"]Our CE is 14.5 years old and still works well ... but we have been in our rented house for 4.5 years now and I have noticed a deterioration in its functionality in that it takes a lot longer to heat up the same amount of water nowadays than it did before. We can still cope with 3 visitors* all having showers every day, lots of washing up in the sink BUT the water heater then works continuously throughout the off peak periods - we have 2** - to heat the water. Whereas before the water heated quickly in a much shorter time. *and we 2 of course. ** 02h00 till 07h15 and 14h20 till 17h05 [/quote] Sue, I got a wee bit lost with the *'s but I take it that you have HC between the two sets of times you mentioned. Despite this, do you keep your CE running all the time or is it only using HC hours. Andrew, I have spent many hours reading up on solar and other heating arrangements and this was discussed at length in the previous thread. You mention the lack of expense but you must understand that while I can buy a new solar water heating system for (2500€ - 4500€ plus installation costs using Leroy Merlin as an example for supplier) I can buy a new ballon for 249€ or 6-10% of the cost of the solar set up. Expensive is relevant to the individual and for some of us, while reducing carbon footprints (a newer buzz word) is the right option financially it isn’t the top option at the moment. The reality is that while most of us know what is the right thing to do, the costs of so doing are prohibitive. It’s as simple as that.