Babbles
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Posts posted by Babbles
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Not quite as the expert couldn't complete the survey ( this has been mentioned already and we would get the completed results after the final signing) because the vendor didn't fill in all the forms and the survey only happened because the Notaire organised it 3 days before for completeion as the Immo had been asked to do it at the Compromis and didn't, if your interested it's in the legal bit about lawyers. I will post the outcome when it happens as it happens frequently to purchasers even when they think they have it covered legally so if it helps anyone so much the better.
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We stayed at Le Senechal which is in Ars, the suites are dear but worth it but the room rate not too bad for stylish suroundings www.hotel-le-senechal.com . Ars is a lovely spot and not to far from St Martin if you want to go out to eat, but there are restaurants in Ars. I have to say this is one of the nicest hotels we have stayed at for the price in France which is quite surprising as Re is not a cheap place![:D] and we've paid a lot more and been in grim surroundings[+o(]
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Peter, it turns out tthat the village drains is actually just a collection of 2 or 3 houses which share the same system, and it cannot be joined into, the Maire has now also said that as its such a tiny village (65 people) that it will never have any kind of collective system. We've had the work done and paid the builder but I'm b*****ed if we going to pay all the bill, the whole garden is now going to have to be re-landscaped so its not just the cost of the Fosse , and it makes me so mad that the immo is better off by 17k (fees) by lying, I understand that its not illegal to sell your own property as an immo but surely you cannot lie to make the sale. The immo or vendor never mentioned a fosse when we discussed drainage.
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Peter, why would you ask how the fosse is to current standard when you've been shown the village drains manhole cover, been drawn a picture where the pipe connects and then we asked this to be confirmed by a specialist and written into the compromis , frankly your solicitor would not have asked to do anything different, of course we even asked if the house had a fosse and we were told it was on village drains at that point there was little else we could do to clarify the situation apart from the action we took, the whole point being is that if someone lies to you how do you get the refunded the additional cost and out of who's pocket it comes. If you cast your mind back to the No Going Back series with the London couple who moved to Provence they had the same problem with no drains / fosse on a house that had been built in the 60's and even though they hadn't had it written into the compromis they could still claim the cost as the drains are not clearly visible when the house was purchased , so I think that French authorities do not look favourably on vendors who lie.
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This might not help much but I did see on some TV show where they made a wet room by custom making copper sheeting to the size of the room and up the walls about 6 inches, and then tiled over the top which was very successful and can of course be made to any size, sorry for the lack of any technical expertise but it might point you in the right direction[:)]
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I'm sure your solicitor didn't go and look at your fosse, we got an expert (which was written into the compromis) to do it instead which doesn't take away from the fact that the immo lied, so it isn't caveat emptor I'm afraid, By saying you had your English based solicitor to do all the checks gives people the wrong impression of the french buying process and that the French cannot be trusted which to be honest I find quite offensive let us not forget in this situation its an English person that has been economical with the truth, and if we were only claiming for 6000 euros we would have settled this a while ago. so frankly I find your comments unhelpful and if you just want somebody to say clever old you, you won't be hearing it from me.
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We're in Northern Gers and I see your now in Stockport and I assume that you will be using Manchester airport ( we also live in Lancs). Northern Gers & Lot & Garrone (32 & 47) are about an hour and half from Bordeaux and Toulouse (BMI baby only fly toToulouse in the Summer last time I looked) you can also do Bergerac in an hour and half out of Liverpool with Ryan Air. From The North Toulouse flights can sometimes be very expensive and after trying all of the I find BMI baby to Bordeaux the best service with less diversions ( often foggy in Bergerac and can't land) so it could be worth while broading your search to south of Agen, its beautiful countryside with lovely towns and villages and good communictaion links
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We are currently in discussion with the immos boss at the moment and hope that we will find a resolution, to which the emails do add gravitas, our other evidence is from what the Notaire asked him to provide which one would imagine would have some standing as a goverment official. My understanding is that if you are taking court action that you cannot email the facts to them and all notificication has to be done by signed for post but emails can still be used.
Llwyncelyn, your pretty clued up about this kind of thing could you PM, as I would love your opinion
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As MOH says I'm not living in b****y show box just to be in Provence, so my works cut out to find a renovation project we can afford [:)], have enough space, land & original features etc etc, we might have to do another in Gers, which is lovely and if we only wanted it as a holiday home it would be fine but part of the long term plan to leave the beautiful but wet Ribble valley is to stop my joints being so painful but as everyone in Gers keep telling me that loads are moving form Provence to Gers to avoid crime, traffic and pollution. Anyway have to sell this house first, which might help if it was onthe market[;-)]
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MOH and me have great debates of which is better, warmer less windy but wetter winters in the Gers or dryer but colder in Provence , thoughts please! and which is better if you suffer arthritis?
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Don't panic....... I'd never get on a bike[;-)]
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Try and get dates included in the Devis as at least it gives you a get out clause if they haven't started and are dragging their feet, and a completion date with penalties for late work (not all builders will agree to this but it might show you mean business) and anyone who won't give some rough kind of deadline, unless they are a very specialist artisan probably aren't worth dealing with.
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Sunday driver, you must have clicked quicker !
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You'll need to check you comromis de vente to see what the Notaire included, ours did, up to a 30 day delay but no more.
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Internet banking is a good option, which leads to getting your computer and internet link organised (which we haven't done yet[:(])
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Sunday Driver has it spot on, the only thing I would add is when you open your bank account get extra copies of you RIB as any direct debit you set up they will want one of these ( its no use just giving them your account details )and you'll only have a couple in you cheque book, Bon Chance[:)]
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The best thing ( apart from all the Devis stuff to keep it legal ) is to ask to see some of there work, I'm sure it will put your mind at rest, our builder could start quickly but has still done/ is doing a fantastic job but if I hadn't seen some of his work I wouldn't be feeling as confident. When it comes to important meetings I have a translator with me so they understand what is cruicial the rest of the time my limited french gets us buy. Something that proved to be very useful was to make sheets with picture of all the bathroom fittings, tiles, lights, wall lights, colours etc etc so he could get a feel for what we wanted which I leave at the house so he's got something to refer to (we are having 3 bathrooms put in and it would be really easy to get things muddled up, it also helpped at the plumbers merchants so they know which catalogues to show us, saved loads of time and miss understanding).Saying all that if they come accross as shady they probably are and keep well clear
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Our Notaire, stated about which mortage but also what interest rate, so is you could only get a mortgage at an high rate you still wouldn't have to complete, there are probably too many issues for clause suspensive , but still ask the questions as the information could be made to you on the day you sign the compromis, if you see the information before you sign they don't have to be included so it then doesn't look like your being unreasonable.
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Thanks for all the replies, it just shows how hard it is when you are trying to do the right thing with the patchy knowledge we have, we're never going to be experts you try to get it included correctly in the compromis to make it a water tight case but it never seems to turn out that straight forward, least were not alone, but if someone doesn't stand up to this sort of thing it will continue.
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Fulcrum, if I'd only known that when we signed the comromis I would have helped, I was looking for the word Fosse and the phrase you used was transalted as "the house drainage" which is true but not clarifed, we have already had additional expense the immo B***S****D about not needing central heating etc etc, the quality of the work he had done was poor so we've had to re do a lot of it and we've let all of that go as we new we wanted to do further renovations and didn't want it to spoil the pleasure of having our new home but at some point you have to say enough is enough, we've paid nearly 14k Euros for the Fosse and the Immo's fees were 17k and the buck (Euro!) now has to stop with someone.
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A bit more clarification
- Our point - We were told it was on village drains by the immo (Immos liability), ie, no major additional cost of extra bathrooms and a pool regarding the drains we thought the report would say that they needed rodding at best or had a partial colapse at worst (neither a major expense), it then turned out to have a dated fosse and need a new fosse (close to 14k euro as its on clay/ slope)
- the Notaires point is - was it working on the day of completetion (vendors liability) it wasn't as the grey water just goes into the soil and the fosse hadn't been emptied in years and had been recently covered over with soil and the grass reseeded. She was lying by saying that she lived there and had no trouble with them (she didn't, its just a way to avoid CG tax) the Notaire has now grasped the point of the negotiated price not just about the price of a replacement fosse as we had been told it was on village drains so need moe than just a contribution towards the cost
- Immos bosses point - did the immo lie when we negotiated the price, he did so is the immos boss now liable as he licenses him
Added complication, the vendor and Immo are long term live in partners and the Immo had a conflict of interest which hadn't been declared when the price was negotiated.[:'(]
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Quillan, we had check the property before we went to sign and there was still an problem with drain smells, there were a lot of other issues but we could see what they were and set a budget to fix them, its really hard when your put on the spot, if there had been no report at all we wouldn't have signed but there was this half report and we thought because of that we have some redress when the other half arrives, but I thought it would have been more straight forward than it has been, as we had mentioned the issue from the start and had in the compromis and final act, the Notaire had witnessed all the discussions but as they were between all English speaking parties some on the finer detail may have been lost on her. As it turned out the house had a fosse and was condemed by the SPANC people we thought they would have to pay up straight away, it just seems to be taking longer than expected and I'm sure that they are hoping that as we still live in the UK we are too frightened or think its not worth the hassle, but how wrong they are! Sometimes you just have to stand up for what is right.
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Quillan, the information was requested at the compromis by the Notaire to the immo from an independant specialist, 2 weeks before the acte de vente we asked the Immo when we would see the report, and had no answer, The Notaire still hadn't recieved anything 3 days before the acte de vente so organised to have the survey done as we couldn't complete with out the survey as it was a clause suspensive, when we turned up on the day we signed we'ed seen an incomplete report and it was noted the we would recieve a completed report in time. 6 -8 weeks later still no report so we contacted the Notaire as the house was unbearable because of the smell. it turned out that the immo hadn't sent the information that had been requested nor had the vendor (his girlfriend/ live in longterm partner) and even when the Notaire chased it up with the vendor she ignored the email. We are now at the point where we have all been back to the Notaires and I've been to see the immos boss (who licencess him) to find a solution as we are now seriously out of pocket as we had to put in a new fosse , but we are prepared to take it to the Immos governing body and court if necessary, we are in a lucky postition as we still have income and a business in the UK but if we had sold up and moved out we really would be in the S**T and not just because the drains weren't working.
Edit, I want to add that apart from this the whole process has been great, we've had the help and assistance from both French and English, and I don't think what has happened to us is because we are in France just that we ran into a low life with no morals who's a real charmer
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I agree that you can get some of the paint now in France, but for me would meaning travelling to Toulouse ( and as I've said on ither threads I oftern end up hurtling towards the Spanish border!) so for me it was easier to bring with me, I suppose its all down to how close you are to decent supplies[:)]
Fosse's, Lawyers and all the stuff they deal with (i.e. C*** !)
in Finding/Owning French Property
Posted
For anyone who has been reading the various threads about lawyers, Fosses and Immo's giving mis-leading info, we now have reached a solution. We ( Immo, Immos boss, Notaire and us, Vendor is Immos other half and didn't turn up) Have now reached a solution without having to resort to lawyers, after a loooooooooong discussion the Notaire suggested that the Vendor pay half the average cost of the Fosse and the Immo pay the other half (this was slightly less than the total cost as we're on a difficult site clay, slope etc etc so the Notaire and Immos boss or expert didn't pay anything apart from their time in sorting it out for which we are truely grateful, it was well worth the cost of 2 beautifully written letters in French as it galvanised everyone to action with out the cost of lawyers. The clincher was the fact we had all the emails and photos from when we viewed and the fact they had ignored emails from the Notaire before the final signing.
I'm a firm believer that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush and now we can get on with enjoying our house and the Gers in our fresh smelling house! we had a loevly time there and can't wait to make it a permenant move.
Thanks for everyones advice and support it was very stressful at times but I would have felt a lot worse if we hadn't done anything about it and would have felt as if we'd been taken advantage of.
Anyone fancy running a village shop and Post Office in Lancashire, good business, supports second home in France etc etc [;-)]