Dick Smith
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Posts posted by Dick Smith
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[quote user="cooperlola"]
There are days when one can't help but wonder if just pitting each side's best fighting men against one another in a field somewhere wasn't a better way to go about this... Those figures are so depressing.
I have been watching a series called "Windrush" on BBC4 for the last couple of nights (more this evening) about the encouragement of immigration from the West Indies as the labour force was so depleted after WWII. Hard to imagine what it must have been like after the 1st war when you see those numbers you quote, Dick.
[/quote]The effects of war losses weren't particularly noticeable after WW2, that was more a question of the economy expanding and requiring more bodies.After WW1 as noted above the losses weren't such as to cause a severe labour problem per se, but there were issues in two areas due to the demographic of those killed and disabled. After all, the losses could be compensated for by employing more women or extending the working life of older men.There was a severe loss in the 'officer classes', and these included skilled men as well as public-school types. This meant that there were shortfalls in some areas. It has often been said that the inadequate leadership of European states in the 30s and even into the 50s was due to the 'brightest and the best' being lost in WW1. In society as a whole the losses fell almost exclusively on fit, able men aged between 18 and 40. This meant skilled workers, craftsmen and so on. So there were shortages of skills, and dilution of some trades resulted.There was also the issue of unmarried women. Up to half a million women had been widowed, and another half million had lost their future partners. This both slowed the birth rate and meant that these women had to look after themselves, working usually. This led to a considerable social change. The population pattern changes can be seen whenever rotated bargraphs of population are shown - I don't have any to hand at the moment, but the nett population shortfall would have been a million or more in the first generation.This whole idea that the war crippled the nation due to population loss became popular in the 1930s and has stuck, although there isn't much evidence for it. The financial losses, however, were catastrophic. -
I actually took them from Wikipedia, simply because I was too lazy to go into my office and get the books and get them from there. They are pretty standard, and familiar. To get 'casualty' figures (ie the killed and wounded, all degrees) multiply these figures by 3, so under 5m.I'm not sure how many Frenchmen served (and in any case that is a rather difficult thing to use, as many were conscripted but not in combat units, not all in combat units fought etc) but 10m would not be out of the ballpark. I believe 5m men served in uniform in Britain 1914-1920.Philip Haythornthwaite "The World War One Sourcebook" gives the following losses:Germany - 1,800,000Russia - 1,700,000France - 1,300,000Austria-Hungary - 922,000Italy - 460,000USA - 50,500Britain - 888,000Australia - 62,000Canada - 65,000New Zealand - 18,000India - 72,000South Africa - 9,300He notes that these losses were, in most cases, 50% greater than those sustained in WW2, and in the case of Britain 233% greater.On the original question it seems as though at some time the memorial got very badly battered. Possibly in WW2, though generally the Germans were pretty indifferent about them. Perhaps there was simply a name missing that could not be recovered, or even a mistake was made. We really need to wait for Remembrance Day and ask someone who shows up with flowers.To put WW1 losses in perspective, I quote from Haythornthwaite (p54-55)'Such statistics are bewildering until considered in terms of population: a contemporary British assessment remarked that evry thousand casualties equated with the annihilation of every able-bodied man between the ages of 18 and 41 of a small market-town like Keswick or Calne... Throughout (1916) it was estimated that a serviceman of British birth or speech was killed or wounded every three-quarters of a minute; and that the average daily loss in August 1916 equated to the total casualties of Blenheim and Inkerman combined.'
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The population of France in 1914 was approx 40 million. Their losses (dead) in WW1 were 1.4 million military, 300,000 civilian.I've never seen that memorial at Tyne Cot (not saying it isn't there, but I haven't seen it). This seems to me to be part of the inflation of casualty figures which is so often a feature of discussions of WW1.It is true to say that the losses were huge, and that in the case of France, heavier than for the British Empire, and equivalent to the German Empire, but not 10% pf the population.UK pop= 45400000 dead = 885000 1.9%France 39600000 1398000 3.5%Germany 64900000 2300000 3.5%USA 92000000 168000 0.2%Australia 4500000 62000 1.4%
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Normandie - tell me more about the Vire fair, please. Usually we have to be home by the end of August for the start of term - but not this year!
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It's very recent. I have aload of pics taken about ten years ago of kids feeding ducks in the local park. Can you imagine doing that nowadays? Very sad.
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I think that you may be right that she is taking a pre-war attitude and projecting it forward. The First World War had been very popular up until the depression (around 1930) when people revised their opinions, and instead of seeing it as a heroic sacrifice and response to the call of duty it was seen as waste and futility. In fact, of course, it was all of those things.
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Could well be water coming up from beneath the floor. We had the same on a concrete floor (above ground level by a few inches), and when it was lifted it was found to be no more than a thin screed over stone rubble. It seems likely that the water was drawn up between the stones by a sort of capillary action. We cured it by having a proper floor laid. This never happened in hot weather, but did appear a few hours after rain or in very cold, damp weather.
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Nice roasted, coated in honey and rolled in poppy seeds. According to the Romans...
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[quote user="Russethouse"]
It really brings home the human element, and the real cost of war
That's interesting Cat, at present I am reading " Our Longest Days" which is the diaries kept by ordinary people for the Mass Observation project. In the part I read last night Nella Last wrote that she cannot understand how the county and the economy can ever recover from the loss of so many men, she forsaw the effects carrying on through generation after generation.....
[/quote]I'm not sure about that, it sounds like an exaggerated case. John Terraine did some work on this myth of the first world war. He showed that the number of men lost during the war (about 200,000 a year pro rata) was not significantly greater than the 'loss' to emigration over the previous few years, which society had managed to survive for many years. I found that surprising, but he seemed to have the numbers on his side. Personally I think he underestimated the effect of serious wounds and neurasthenia on both marriage rates and loss of skilled workers, but he seems sound overall. Given that the losses in WW2 were considerably less (382,000 military, 68,000 civilian against 750,000), the demographic effect would be even less noticeable. Certainly there was no feeling in the 50s and 60s, as there had been 10-25 years after the Great War that a generation had been lost, or that potential leaders had been removed. -
To be serious, there is beginning to be a panic reaction amongst the less mentally well-endowed sections of society (including the Met) that anyone using a camera in public IS a paedophile. It is now just about impossible to carry a camera in some parks, for example. What was worse was that in London the Mayor's office endorsed this view, and there was even a move to remove the right to take photographs in public places. I don't know where Boris stands on this, but then I suppose he doesn't either.
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Omigods! You COUNTED the words in a reply?
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I pronounced it [noo].Like 'nu'.
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Is it stapled or bound? You may be able to prise staples out and replace them later. Possibly your local librarian could help.
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Can't tell much from the pictures, but does the postcard show the memorial looking fairly knocked about? Or am I imagining it?Perhaps the local office de tourisme, or even the mairie might know, or have directions to someone who does.
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Indeed Sainsburys stock it, and it is now in my basket for my next delivery...
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Well, that's fair enough, really.I just get fed up with people who think that if I'm overweight (which I must admit I am) I am either slow-witted, thick or lazy.Well, they could be right about the last one...
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[quote user="Russethouse"]
The paper it is typewritten on is getting very brown now, I ought to have it transcribed so others could share it.
[/quote]You must. The Imperial War Museum would probably be interested in a copy as well. In fact, when I retire (next month) I'll do it for you, if you send me a photocopy. -
OK, I'm salivating now...Where do you buy it, I'm certain I've never seen it in Champion or Leclerc!
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I use some Scwarz packet sauces (Parsley, over steamed smoked haddock, Bearnaise) and also packet custard - but that is because it's the only way I can easily get sugar-free.I agree about Bisto - just a dessertspoon or so can enrich sauces. Food purists will now be having kittens...
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I did think about looking in the cupboard, but I made myself a cup of coffee instead.Dunno what in the Le Saveur stuff. Salt, mostly, I suspect, and possibly 'bone stock'.Why isn't there a fish Oxo?
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Nah. I went to Sainsburys website and cut'n pasted...
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Ingredients in Oxo:Wheatflour, Salt, Cornflour, Yeast Extract, Flavour Enhancers(Monosodium Glutamate, Disodium Guanylate), Colour (Ammonia Caramel),Flavourings, Beef Fat, Autolysed Yeast, Dried Beef Bonestock, Sugar andOnion Powder.Yum.
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[quote user="Just Katie"]Many on the supermarkets seem to have a British shelf these days. I did not realise people still used Oxo Cubes [blink][/quote]Yup, I do. Beef, chicken, lamb, vegetable - the lot. Used some when making a shepherd's pie yesterday. Though to be honest that was 50/50 liquid Oxo and French saveur de cuisine stuff, you know the Maggi stuff in the little bottle that always goes gunky round the top.
County Shows in Normandie?
in North West (Basse-Normandie, Haute-Normandie, Picardie, Nord Pas-de-Calais)
Posted
D. 14 Septembre : Vire – Place du Champ de Foire – 10h/11h30 – Réunion de véhicules anciens des « Vieux Volants Virois ».
S. 20 et D. 21 Septembre : Vire et Bocage Virois - Journées du Patrimoine. Rens.: Point Info Tourisme 02.31.66.28.50