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MrCanary

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    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    [quote user="cooperlola"]

    [quote user="Mel"]As long as we all respect each other's thoughts and opinions, this is a really good thread!

    [/quote]Yes it is.  I think it's probably the longest thread discussing politics and social values in France that I have ever seen on this forum.  I wonder why that is?[Www]

    I agree with Clair here - one of the few good things to come out of this has been the sudden upsurge in interest in the way in which the tacit acceptance of a man's (not this particular one) "pecadillos" - if I may call them that - continues to undermine the position of women in French society in general. 

    [/quote]

    Display my ignorance now, what are pecadillos? Are they someting a dog gets removed? (lol)

    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    Yes (to Russethouse), and I am sure I have covered those points in earlier posts...

    I am certainly not presupposing the accusations are untrue, what I am saying is that, whilst unproven, they remain rumour and speculation and are inadmissable in a court of law.

    As for the DNA, I covered that as well when I said a good lawyer will turn that round...

    I have no idea who is telling the truth, who is guilty or what either of them have done before. I always hope that honesty will win the day and anyone who is lying gets found out. But I have been around for a few years now and know that does not always happen...

    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    [quote user="Russethouse"]

    [quote user="Mel"]Thanks for answering my questions, Clair, so despite the alleged nasty taste left by his remarks to a friend's daughter and also having allegedly (unproven) assaulted the same female, DSK has no previous convictions relating to sex offences or any other crimes?

    Therefore this "outrageous allegation made by the hotel maid is totally uinsubstantiated and goes completely against this man's past good record"...

    Steady - I am playing devil's advocate.

    [/quote]

     I know it was in the Mail, but including this one I think an article in the week mention 6 or 7 other instances of 'dubious' behavior...are they all untrue? Strikes me he is an 'old roue' who now finds himself out of step with new thinking ...........

    One thing does make me smile, imagine if he was elected, would Angela Merkel find herself with DSK on one side and Belusconi on the other ? [:D]

    ould that make her smile ? [:D]

    [/quote]

    I have to be honest and say I knew very little about DSK before all this blew up and ceratinly knew nothing about his political aspirations...

    What I have been trying to do is look at the facts that are available through the eyes of someone who worked with the UK police for more than 30 years. I cannot do so through the eyes of American or French law as I know very little about either (albeit I have worked with the police in Chicago). However, I do understand that in both our countries, anyone is innocent until proven guilty. And certainly in the UK, all the rumour and speculation about his supposed past, would be inadmissable as 'hearsay'. In my opinion that is quite correct and ought to be the same in America, but I do not know if it is.

    In the courts that I know, a jury would be instructed by the judge to disregard any rumour or speculation they may have heard or read in the media, and to make their decision based only on the facts put before the court...

    And at the moment, if that is the rule in America as well, in my opinion DSK will not get convicted on anything and everything that has been discussed anywhere in this really interesting thread!

    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    Thanks for answering my questions, Clair, so despite the alleged nasty taste left by his remarks to a friend's daughter and also having allegedly (unproven) assaulted the same female, DSK has no previous convictions relating to sex offences or any other crimes?

    Therefore this "outrageous allegation made by the hotel maid is totally uinsubstantiated and goes completely against this man's past good record"...

    Steady - I am playing devil's advocate.

    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    [quote user="Clair"]

    She was 21 years old at the time of the alleged assault in 2002.

    Her family has (had?) close links with his family.

    Her god-mother is one of his ex-wives.

    She was a friend of one of his daughters.

    Her mother, an elected regional councillor for the Socialist Party, dissuaded her from making a formal complaint after she had reported the matter to a solicitor, convincing her she would forever be resented as the girl who brought DSK down.

    Why would she put herself through the vilification she has been subjected to this week?

    [/quote]

    Clair, these are questions, not criticism...

    How does the public know this information? Presumably the mother or daughter have been recorded/seen on television giving out these facts? Or is this information based on what newspapers (UK/France/anywhere) are printing?

    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    [quote user="cooperlola"]

    Whatever, I would certainly like to see all remand prisoners in the US being treated better than they are.  For DSK and all the other thousands of prisoners on remand in the US, there must surely be a better way than this.

    [/quote]

    Absolutely right there, Debs!

    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    Come back Frenchie - you are absolutely right, 'innocent until proven guilty' and absolutely nobody on this forum knows any of the actual facts...

    I

    was a police officer in England and unavoidably had to be part of rape

    investigations on a number of occasions. One in particular springs to mind

    where I was the first on the scene of a 'stranger rape' where a young woman had

    been attacked in the street, dragged into an alleyway, raped and discarded like

    a used cigarette packet. I was so angry. Had my police partner and I have

    caught that man the same night, we would have struggled to keep our hands off

    him. I will never forget the way that poor girl was sobbing. Fortunately the

    man was caught, but not before he had raped again.

    I have always found it difficult to watch movies with rape scenes and still

    walk out of the room if something like that comes on the tv. Rape is not just a

    sexual thing, it is invariably a man trying to prove he can control others and

    is demonstrating his power. In common with almost every male police officer, it

    was at times like that I felt embarrassed to be a man.

    Whatever DSK may or may not have done in the past, I have not read anything to

    suggest he has a criminal record for sex offences. Yes, he might have 'an eye'

    for women, but what honest heterosexual male doesn't? And, hand on heart, how

    many men (and some women) would actually say 'no' to a sexual fling if they

    thought they could get away with it? No, for me, DSK is a flirt who has perhaps

    had the odd affair or two, but I do not think he is a sex offender. If it is

    later conclusively proved that he is, he will have to face the consequences.

    But I am very surprised at the lynch mob attitude of some people on the forum and

    it is surprising just who is behaving like that…

    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    Whilst I don't agree with Frenchie's belief that people on here are spitting on the French, I do have some sympathy with her viewpoint on this matter...

    It does strike me that a large number of people taking part in this debate have already convicted DSK purely on the evidence of the media. You must remember that what the media do not know, they invariably make up - albeit in a very clever non-libellous way. It strikes me that one or two posters would be the first to take part in a lynch mob for DSK if they had the opportunity.

    Yes, this is a debate and a very good one. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please wait to hear the facts that come out in court before convicting or freeing the man. Having said that, I know from experience many of them may be muddied by lies in court from both sides.

    DSK, can we believe this?

    in The Complete France Post Bag

    Posted

    Thank you idun, there is a small minority of women who tar all men with the same brush...

    And to clarify my comments, I am not suggesting DSK is innocent, just pointing out the difficulties when it is one word against another with very little independent evidence. Prior to this incident, I knew no more about the man than I now know about the hotel maid, but listening to those who did have knowledge of him, judging by his perceived past, he is obviously as guilty as hell... (?)

    Quillan - I certainly agree with your thoughts as they are the same ones I banged my drum for throughout my 30+ years with the police. An innocent man who has been accused of rape will always be guilty in some people's eyes. And an innocent woman who has genuinely been raped will, if the man gets away with it, always be a 'she-asked-for-it tart' in some people's eyes.

    Rape and most sexual offences are very easy to allege and very difficult to prove or disprove, so keep everyone anonymous until the matters are brought to conclusion.

     

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