Sprogster
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Posts posted by Sprogster
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Jean has highlighted the main consideration and that is how much do you want to be tied to one location? As if you think you might want to travel around for a few more years, then rental is probably the better option, until you are content to settle in one place. Also arguably buying a property in France makes less financial sense at the moment, with the prediction of falling or stagnant house prices for several years to come.
PdeR one of the contributors to this forum who is a property professional in France, says statistics reflect that most second home owners sell within ten years. Probably because they become bored with the same holiday year after year, and you are right that visitors including family do fall away once the novelty has worn off, which can be a good or bad thing depending on how social you are!
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Having just flown back having been fortunate enought to attend the closing ceremony, all I can say is WOW!!
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As a British passport holder you can visit France for as long as you want, but your children and husband having Oz passports are limited to 90 days. So unless you can get British passports for your children and husband, I believe they will need to apply for a French long stay visa, which prohibits employment and is more complicated to obtain than it used to be, especially if you are not a well off retiree.
Not sure about schooling, but you need to remember the economy in Europe is in a big mess currently, compared to the near boom economic situation you have in Australia, so not sure how accomodating French schools would be with current budgetary pressures to accept Australian children who are on an extended holiday, or indeed whether your children as non EU nationals would be entitled to education in France on a temporary stay basis. Therefore, maybe prudent to budget for private schools and you will also need to budget for private health insurance cover.
As for weather, well anywhere in France is very cold in winter compared to Australia, and with short daylight hours I would certainly prefer to be in your area of the world for the winter months!
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Mrs B, if one of your prime motivators is to get away from the damp & cold Brit climate for your husband's health, choose your location in France carefully, as most of France has weather that is not disimilar and in many areas can be much colder and or wetter in winter than many areas of the UK, because the further inland you go the more you lose the protection of the gulf stream. Also just like the UK, France has had a very unsettled weather pattern the last couple of years, so the weather seems to be on the change.
The main reason I am on the Med is that any further north than Lyon and the weather is not on average any better than my home in the C.I. If France has a fault it is too far north and therefore I would strongly recommend you take a couple of trips to France in the depths of winter first, before you commit to the move.
There are several members of this forum who live in France but upsticks every winter to go to southern Spain and many French retirees go to Morocco for the coldest months.
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volvoman, unfortunately I think the south of France is especially bad for burglary and monitored alarm systems are a must. A safe is also a good idea.One of the reasons I believe for this is that this area is targeted in summer by criminals from afar, as a relatively prosperous area with lots of tourists and second home owners.
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I take the view that immoblier associations are conflicted in that it is in their members interests to talk up the market, so on balance their reports will be on the optimistic side.
It seems that the optimists are talking about a reasonably stable market with a gradual decline in house values over the next few years, and the pessimits believe there still could be a more fundamental correction.
At the back of my mind I have the thought that the French socialist government would welcome more affordable house prices, so a decline could well suit their political aims.
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Stan, I sympathise with your situation. Presumably, the medical is to determine your suitability for any type of work, not necessarily just the line of employment you were in before? If that is the situation and your condition is a stable injury caused disability, rather than progressive illness, then at your relatively young age my understanding that it can be difficult to be ruled as unfit for any type of work, unless profoundly disabled, as the qualifying parameters have been tightened.
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Quillan, just pm'd you the link.
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Coops, but Stan moved after the change in the rules and therfore arguably knew the risks if his incapacity was of a nature that it could improve and allow him to return to work.
Clearly it is worth a try, but Stan's potential predicament should be a warning for those contemplating a move to France in a similar situation.
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Coops, I would not rely on the new French government being more flexible with foreign early retirees in France, quite the contrary as I believe that with the dire economic situation in Europe they are vunerable, as governments will be looking at every way to cut costs and don't forget Brits in France cannot vote! Hence my reference to the Spanish precedent.
What probably does not help the situation is that the government perception in France is that most Brits moving to live there are low income retirees, which rightly or wrongly are seen as a potential financial burden to the State.
As a result my guess is that increasingly the movement of inactifs and retirees between EU member States will become subject to strict means testing and private medical insurance requirements, which it would appear the EU law allows.
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The official second quarter figures for French house prices are out and it not surprisingly reflects a slowing market and falling prices, with some areas like Pouitou-Charentes down 13.8% over the last three months! Upper and lower Normandy is also showing a double digit decline, which seems to indicate that rural areas favoured by Brits seem to be suffering the most.
There is a rare general consensus amongst banks, notaires and immoblier associations that the market is slowing and prices are falling and will probably continue to do so over the next three to four years, as apparently average French house prices are still overvalued.
The good news is that a collapse in prices is not anticipated, more of a slow correction, although rural areas that are dependent on foreign buyers could be more vunerable.
For those thinking of buying time appears to be on their side and those thinking of selling probably need to make a decision sooner rather than later.
I can add a link to the stats and overview report but it is contained in a French property website, so not sure I am allowed? -
Stan, if you were judged fit to work and lost your E121, as an inactif I think you would need to wait until you had been in France 5 years until you could apply to join the French health care system. I don't believe you would fall under the accident of life provision if you had been medically assessed as fit to work.
What you have highlighted is the risk anyone takes in moving to France on incapacity benefit as if you are judged fit to work and loss your E121, private medical insurance is probably not an option due to your medical history and the French authorities in the current economic climate are not accommodating to foreign inactifs who want to join the French health system.
There has been some interesting reports from Spain that the authorities are seriously cracking down on unemployed and inactif Brits and other non Spanish EU citizens resident there, using a provision under EU law that free movement within the EU is subject to an individual not becoming a financial burden on another member State. As a result there is speculation that this sentiment will spread to other EU countries, making it much more difficult for early retirees to move from one EU country to another, unless they can clearly prove they have adequate financial means and private medical insurance, if not covered by their country of origin.
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Remember once you have become tax resident in France, it is too late to do anything if financial problems arise, so professional advice before you go is defnitely a good idea, especially if you have any pension arrangements with lump sum options, which in France unlike the UK I believe would be taxed as income.
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I joined the Green French Forum a couple of years ago, but have only posted on it a few times, as there is such little activity. The busiest recurring thread is an update on the weather from various members!
As for the other French Forum that is the main subject of discussion, I have had the same PM from Pomhorn pointing out I have raised an issue previously dealt with! Without Pomhorn it would be much quieter as by my rough calculation he creates about 20% to 30% of the new threads and therefore without his contribution the hit count for that site would be a lot lower, which presumably then has an adverse impact on the marketing side. Maybe there is some form of arrangement for his contributions, because indirectly it could financially benefit the site by driving up the hit count, which is one of the main selling point statistics to potential advertisers..
The main difference of course compared to a few years ago are that there are few posts from new members considering moving to France on any of the forums, which is undoubtedly due to the recession.
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sshh coops, don't jinx it!! If the UK government has its way it will do everything it can to devalue the £ again, so enjoy the current rate while you can.At least when I go out for a meal in France now, I am less likely to cry into my coffee when I get the bill!
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Debra, in the absence of any indexation allowance to enable one to offset inflation against any gain, a profit is not a profit that just covers inflation over the period you owned the house and taxing the gain that just covers inflation at 49% is therefore outrageous. Hence why CGT rates are usually much lower than income tax rates.
In addition in France you need to sell your house for around 30% more than you paid for it to cover your original purchase and sale costs.
There may be bargains around, but the Notaires associations, French banks and Immoblier organisations of France are all forecasting a fairly substantive decline in French house prices this year, with the possible exception of central Paris and certain high end areas of the Cote D'Azur. Don't forget that France now has a socialist government that would welcome falling house prices, making them more affordable to the average person.
My own view is that if I get my money back when I eventually sell my house, then I will be happy. In the meantime the enjoyment of using it is sufficient return on my investment which is probably a sensible philosophy for most second home owners. (I am sure one of the forum members who has moved to the USA and recently sold his French house after two years trying would have been ecstatic just to get his original investment back!)
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I would have thought that non EU residents will need to think very carefully now if they are considering buying a second home in France, with an effective CGT rate of just under 49%, which is probably the highest in the world!!!! OK, you can keep the property for thirty years, but in reality most second home owners sell within 10 years.
It will be interesting to see if they try and apply the higher rate to EU citizens who are currently resident outside the EU, something that is already being challenged through the EU courts in regards to another area of taxation.
The only saving grace is that future gains on French property are probably unlikely for the forseeable future, with a loss more likely!
American second home owners in France will be doing their nut, as their US liability is only 15%!!
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One of the problems Peugot/Citroen have is they are too small compared to any other mass car manafacturer having failed to merge with any other companies, so struggle to fund totally new products at the same scale of other car companies like the VW Group, which consists also of Skoda, Seat, Audi, Porsche, Bentley Lamborgini and Bugatti. Renault have merged with Nissan and that enables them to share development costs. So new models like the Peugot 208 is more of a reskin sharing a lot of the mechanicals of its predecessor the 207.
Also the French car manafacturers are finding that they cannot afford to compete with the customer financing deals offered by VW and VW are as a result eroding Peugot/Citroen and Renaults French market share dramatically. VW can raise money on the money markets at 2%, whereas the French car companies are having to pay 6%, as seen as higher risk by investors.
Last but not least the French car manufacturers sit firmly at the bottom of the JD Power reliability rankings.
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You will need to buy a new SKY box and get your friend who provides the UK address for SKY purposes, to activate it for you from their UK house. The nuisance factor is that they will need your SKY card to do this. However once activated you can just unplug it and bring it to France.
From my experience SKY are getting a bit more cunning, as if you ring to activate from a number that they cannot readily identify as a UK or C.I. land line, they ask if they can call you back and I have a feeling they do this as a random check as well, which is what happened to me a few weeks ago. Fortunately, I was back in the C.I, so that was not a problem.
Would suggest you take the opportunity to upgrade to a SKY HD box, as SKY no longer charge a supplement to receive the main HD channels.
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If my French neighbours are anything to go by, the standards of French hospital care seems to be slipping fast due presumably to budget cuts.Horror stories such as one French hospital overlooking blood clots on the lung that were highlighted in the scan report read by the patient as they were being driven home from hospital!Another critically unwell neighbour having to wait outside on a wooden bench at French A&E on Monday in 35 degree heat, as emergency room was over flowing, having previously been turned away from another hospital due to lack of beds.I get the impression that non urgent elective medical care in France is better, but emergency care is no better if not worse than the UK.
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For those on lower incomes who are reliant on letting their holiday home for a few months a year to help fund the cost, clearly any increase in tax is not going to help.The negative publicity these tax changes have generated in the UK, is bound to make individuals considering purchasing in France a bit nervous about further increases.Also alternative countries like Spain and Italy who will now have lower taxes on property than France might be favoured instead.
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Unless I am missing something the major deterrent factor with the proposals for non resident owners is that they will not be able to get double tax relief, as the additional charges will not qualify as tax under double tax agreements.
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The big problem in extending social security charges to EU non residents, is that they would be discriminated against in that unlike French residents they cannot enjoy social security benefits for which they would be contributing. Also these proposed charges would not qualify for relief under any double tax treaty for non residents, not being a tax.Apparently the UK government have said they will challenge through EU courts if implemented.Meanwhile not good at all for values of properties in regions popular with second home owners.
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Garden Girl, I can strongly recommend air conditioning your bedroom and salon, as not only useful for cooling but an economic way to heat in winterl, if using a modern reverse cycle air con unit.
In the south Var sleeping with the windows open in summer is not an option unless you want to be eaten alive by mozzies and with the increase in serious disease carrying Tiger mozzies in the south of France, air con or a mosquito net is now a necessity in my opinion!
Secondaires - would you do it again?
in Finding/Owning French Property
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