Poolguy
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Posts posted by Poolguy
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[quote user="foxyloxy25"]I'm Plod (on my wife's log-in!). The house has 3/4 bedrooms, two baths and hot water and central heating come from oil. I had thought that the cost of conversion would make it not viable financially but wondered if anybody had done it. I think we have a relatively limited time in this house so the cost of any major expenditure (eg solar) may not be recouped.[/quote]
'recoup'... 'pay-back'.... amortisation.... get your money back'.....!!!!!!
I hear this all the time when anyone is looking at renewable energy systems.
Its really funny that I never read it or heard anything like it when a renovator is talking about fossil fuel systems which are by far the majority of installations. Its a curious piece of psychology I think ,that in the past we've been ripped off, dumped on, lied too, polluted out of or health and generally taken the mickey out off by energy giants for generation and we just accept it.... 'OK well if that's what it cost then I guess I just have to pay it... 've got no choice after all'.
Now that there are viable choices... that actually work, and are better for comfort, health, purse, environment community, its 'that's all very well my son with your fancy renewable energy gizmo but when am I going to get my money back? What…! 8 years!!!!! Can't wait that long... you're joking! Its ugly too....!
(never seen a pretty oil boiler in my life)
Its going to be the next generation that will have the foresight to understand and act on the consequence of their individual choices for home energy consumption because its sure that this generation is too pre-occupied with keeping the 'home (oil) fires burning, and keeping those carbon emission coming', maintaing the staus quo to change anything even if the price climbs faster than a rattle snake up a drain pipe.
I don't think that anyone should have to be a crusader to consider these technologies seriously,…… just awake and with an elementary grasp of arithmetic will do.
Here's hoping that I have put this audience to sleep!
Andrew
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[quote user="DaveI"]
I am currently planning a new heating system for a barn renovation. I will be installing Navitron or similar solar tubes on the roof and a large woodburner, possibly a large Woodwarm 20kW woodburner with a boiler to heat both the water tank and up to about 10 radiators. I was considering a 300 litre unvented solar tank with 2 coils for the solar and woodburner with the woodburner circuit being vented to a header tank.
Would it be worth considering a thermal store in place of the unvented tank and does anyone have any experience of how this works, is the thermal store vented, and how does it provide domestic hot water?
Dave
[/quote]
I have sent you a PM about the Thermal store and the Navitron solar system. I am installing the same at the moment.
Andrew
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Buying into a NEW oil fired system........ madness madness, madness - obviously the price rise of €0.15 per litre in the last week hasn't filtered out to the campagne.
Look at Solar and life looks brighter and more comforatble and more affordable no matter what the Barrel price is.
....... Or am I missing the all important view of reality.
Andrew
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Its certain that you have a leak from that amount of water escaping.
There are many possibilities, not just the pipe work. It could be the gasket around the skimmer box is not sealed, or one of the seams of the liner or even a hole. To know for sure you will have to have an electrostatic leak detection test under taken - not cheap. Most probably (but not definately) the leak is around the waterline where it rests.
To get some answers a syringe of die can be bought that will indicate a leak pathway but this is not reliable.
If the pool is new then its a warantee problem, but if its not then its unlikley that the pool company would undertake an intervention under warantee arguing misuse, but its asticky one.
If you need help then let me know.
Andrew
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Yes I can help you.
Send me you contact details by PM
Andrew
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If you have any ideas I could pass along to my web desigener to fix the problem I would be grateful.
Its a mystery to me.
Andrew
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Thats fine
Out of interest, which digital tester did you buy? Does it also test for cyanuric acid?
Andrew
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I've answerd you on the other thread. Leave your TA alone .. its ok
Bring down the pH though 7.2 -7.6, use Dry acid, hydrochloric or sulphuric acid.
Andrew
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Simon
You need bicarbonate of Soda (F. bicarbonate de Sudre) PM me with your details and I'll help if I can;
25 Kg sac
TYou didnt say haw low your TA is and how you tested it - digital tester?
Andrew
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Sharkster: Does high PH and total alkalinity dry out your skin? I have just purchased a digital tester and got somewhat of a shock today when I tested the pool and all the levels are through the roof. So far managed to reduce my PH to normal (I expect this to bounce back up due to high TA) and in the process of reducing TA - was over 200 now at 175, aiming for below 150 tomorrow.. Also with high PH and TA would the total chlorine level stay high, or have I been going a little wild with the chlorine tablets?
Sharkster
The main effect of a high pH is to make an 'itchy, dry irritable' feeling on your skin and to make your eyes sting (tears are about 7.2pH). So its really bad for swimming it also affects the ability of the chlorine to disinfect the water. For example: @7.2pH, 1.5ppm chlorine concentration will result in the life span of E.Cole of 0.5 of a second.
@ 7.6pH - you need nearly 2.5ppm Chlorine to get the same result
@ 7.8pH - you will need nearly 4ppm Chlorine ditto
@ 8 pH - the chlorine is not really doing much at all
In addition to these problems, a High pH will begin to degrade all the pools fittings, make your liner expand causing wrinkles, corrode all metallic surfaces and electrical connections.
Its really important to keep your pH in check which is why a lot of people leave this job to an automatic controller, without it you need to be constantly vigilant.
Your TA reading of 200ppm is fine, no need to panic till you get up to 300ppm or down below 80ppm. pH bounce will only start to trouble you if you go down to very low TA in which case you need to dose with Bi carbonate to soda to bring it up again.
Hope that this has been of help.
Andrew
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Sorry for that Bob
Not much I can do about it as I have raised the problem several times with the site designer and he says that the Flash presentation cannot be converted - I don't know what to do either.
Maybe I can help you with a good old fashion phone call If you PM me your details for contact.
Andrew
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I concur with Baz
More infomation please... test your water Free Chlorine, pH, Total Alkalinity, Cyanuric Acid.
Its extremly unlikely that your reaction was from chlorine...... do you have a history of hyper senitivity? ITs more likely to be pH out of balance.
Andrew
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Jacki
It’s important to check the levels of Stabiliser in your pool if you are going to use ordinary (unstabilised) salt to feed your system. You seem to be not aware that the electrolyser on your wall is making salt at a set rate, which is usually barely enough to keep the water disinfected. The chlorine it makes is bunt off by the ultra violet rays and so Cyanuric acid (stabiliser) is added to the salt as a sunscreen. Its sure that you will have insufficient in the water now as a result of the excessive rain and so you will need to recharge it. You can do this by adding Cyanuric acid powder to the correct level and then go on with ordinary salt - it certainly cheaper.
I suggest that you have a tester that will help you to keep these levels correct. Otherwise the electrolyser will hardly keep up with the UV burn littleon on the bather load.
If you need further help then contact me.
Andrew
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Don
There are great many issue for you to visit now that you are a pool owner.
Not withstanding that you have half a pool cleaning system.
As we advise in the previous post which Cathy has highlighted, the fact that you do not have the equipment you need is a blow but not insurmountable. You should consider a good pool tester first and formost as its the secret to keeping a good pool as if you do not know whats going on with the water chemistry, then you'll never get it right or keep it that way. (I recommend the Scuba +)
The Total Alkalinity is the first stage to fix, followed by pH, stabilser and chorine levels. And then filter, filter and filter some more. If you've got a sand filter then changer it to Zeolite and look at your sanitisation regime and continue with either manual dosing or consider automatic with Chlorine Direct injection. If you do not know what these terms mean then see the glossary on my web site.
Its sad that the previous owner took the robot, I would have thought that it was part of the inventory, its important to name these things before you pay the final amounts so that they stay. Nevertheless if you want me to look out for a second hand one then let me know. They do come up from time to time as some owners find that they do not suit them so well after developing a leak. Or you could consider a new electric model.
At any rate let me know if I can help you.
Andrew
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Ernie
Thanks for the question.
I presume by 'recuperation tank' you mean rain water storage, which is a good source of water. If its from any other source the do not use it.
I suggest you invest in a water analyser (such as Scuba +) and a stock of Chlor either liquid or powder, galletts avaialbe from a brico, pHminus liquid or powder from the same place.
If you tell me the cubic capacity of the pool then I can advise you about the correct sizing of filter, pump and (of course) the quantity of ZEL EAU filter medium to put in it.
Hope tha this helps
Andrew
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No tax or security laws as they are considered the same as an above ground pool or a spa. Temporary fixture.
If you need any help PM me your details.
Andrew
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Sharkster
Yes you are right in your analysis.
The most economical regime for any pool uses the base chemical treatment rather than the commercial bundled branded version.
Hence:
- Sensitisation - Eau de javel (sodium hypo chloride)
- pH Balance - Sulphuric acid or hydrochloric acid or dry acid (sodium bisulphate)
- Stabiliser - cyan uric acid
- Total alkalinity - bicarbonate of soda
If you are happy to handle these chemicals manually then it’s the best (purest) regime to use, as there are no 'add ons' that you do not need and no not know about.
If you are uncomfortable with handling them then auto dosing is a viable option and there are units available for all pools and budgets.
The reason I don't not agree with anti-algae is that you should not need it if the above is correct, the practice of throwing it in anyway will no help your water quality at all. The are several sorts but the most common is copper sulphate based which is a extremely effective poison and works very well on algae but it can also make humans if it gets to concentrated which it will if you keep on adding and do nothing to get rid of it. Moreover if you get too much of any of the heavy metals in your water then you can have 'plating out' problems where spots of different colour start to appear on the liner. Sequesting metal out of water is a very expensive business.
If you have to use an anti-algae I would only consider using a enzyme base product.
Zeolite helps this process by extracting ammonium, phosphates and nitrates by ion attraction, none of which are wanted in pool water.Hope that we have helped you.
Andrew
- Sensitisation - Eau de javel (sodium hypo chloride)
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You do not say if you have bought
ZEL EAU or some other brand.If it was
ZEL EAU then the retailer should have told you that you NEVER use flocculant as you already have exemplar filtration medium and it needs no more help to keep your water clean.The purpose of flocculant is to aid and improve absolutly hopeless filtration systems - such as sand filtration(40 micron). Its completly crazy situation, as sand is worthless and very poor medium for this job and you are obliged to pay continuously fo flocculant and work to keep it doing anything at all.
But if its thrown away and zeolite put in its place then .... HEY PRESTO!! you have the very best filtration medium available, with nothing more to pay for over 5 years: its the most convenient, best filtration(1 micron), extracts ammonia, nitrates & phosphates and its not difficult of expensive to install.
Sharkster, if you have bought another brand, it stands to reason that they did not give you any advise or assistance in how to use it. Yes Bayrol Complete has flocculant in - bad choice.Use simple Chlor lent instead.
Andrew
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Yes the rule (in general terms) is 3 meters from the boundary but there are some exceptions - this is France after all. If you are further than that from the boundary then you will not go far wrong.
Polystyrene block construction is a good method, particulary for DIY, there are some do's and don'ts but most of it is common sence and will provide a solid structure for a liner.
No particular advantage over a panel pool though, as strength in the side walls (structure) is not a tremendous issue so long as the backfilling hase been done properly and with the correct material. Mak sure that you get the treated blocks so that you don't build a nice home for rodents to nest in you pool strucure. I you want some more detailed help then PM me you details and I will be happy to get back to you.
Andrew
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There are quit a few methods of sanitising a Swimming pool which are acceptable to the DDASS (Dept of Health). Which include;
( Arrete du 7 Avril 1981)
Chlorine gas
Chlorine liquid
Bromine
Ozone
PHMB
Since then, they have added
Hydrogen peroxide
Ultra violet lamps (with suppliementation)
Now all of these systems have their various advantages and disadvantages. Chlorine Gas for example is highly dangerous and may only be used in certain controlled circumstances. Hydrogen peroxide is very volatile and explosive and will not work with anything else but UV.
So for Hagar's benefit and for others who read these posts regularly, let me reiterate that my position is and always has been, so long as the regime adopted in the pool provides a sterile and safe swimming environment, then I have no issues to raise. However, where I do raise vigorous objection is where there are False Claims made, or there is inadequate sterilisation resulting from the regime adopted. So I stand by my remarks, which are mostly researched and verifiable through conventional science and worldwide best practices. If it seems to readers that I am pushing one particular solution, it’s that it stands out in my assessment, head and shoulders to provide the 'best value for money’ and the easiest and safest solution - nothing more. If there was an alternative that eclipsed the Chlorine direct injection method then I would be the first to investigate and you would find me speaking about it at length here and everywhere. This part of a pool is so important to get right, it’s the bit you are swimming in, and if it isn't adequate, then there a no end to the dangers and drama's which will certainly result.
Hagar has spoken in favour of the Bio UV method and for him it works – Good! But lets be clear-‘ the Revlement’ is Hydrogen peroxide that much I know and he has said so. Hence to be required to put 30 litres of Peroxide in the pool to support the other regime negates its advantages – it is NO WAY a chemical free regime that it claims to be, in fact he is running a Peroxide pool which is assisted by the UV process and not the other way around. Hydrogen peroxide is a VERY efficient killer of bacterium, nearly 10 times more efficient than chlorine, it is so aggressive and residuals are so long lasting that in his pool 30 litres are sufficient compared to nearly 150 litres of chlorine (estimate -PG). It means that by and large once the pool is dosed with peroxide he could turn off the UV process as there is enough sanitization going on already. So I cannot say that it doesn’t work because, with peroxide in the water it clearly does – very clear water, but what I can say and I stand by this, is that the UV lamp by itself will not do the job, for the reasons I have already stated in previous posts. More over, the use of the word ‘Bio’ is a misnomer as it is not ‘Biological’, that is just ‘marketing Speak’. So again I say, if you are happy with it then continue to use it and please do not regards my remarks as essentially knocking this solution – I am merely seeking to explain the truth for other readers.
For MJW, I am not at all surprised that your installers are not wholly enthusiastic about the Chemigem solution of direct injection. For in France generally and the Pool industry particularly, there is a persistent culture of ‘Stick with what your know – regardless!’, and this will cause an implacable barrier to even self-evident changes in practice. I seriously doubt that the installer you have contact knows anything about the system he is condemning, (certainly the statements he has made are wrong), but rather is proposing a salt solution to maximise his own profit. He is not interested in your water quality, just getting the job done with little aggravation – which for him means ‘don’t do anything differently’. If you are committed to this installer or another then I hope that it works for you and that you are satisfied with his solutions to your needs. But if you are not yet committed, then perhaps you would like to contact me and I can offer you another solution for its sure that they cannot match my results in water quality- that is proven any times.
Andrew -
These types of machine 'come a go', in and out of favour.
They received their highest popularity in sanitising bottled water as it is easy and cheap to pass a regulated flow of water under the UV lamp and Zapp any of the bugs still living after extensive filtration. Then the water is bottled and the cap sealed so no more contamination can take place - good result.
This process has real dissadvantages in a swimming pool situation where the water is open to the elements and all of that ' environment' trying to get in there and live as we know it does so well. So if you have a UV lamp treatment then, you are pumping water from a contaminated pool passing it under the lamp killing the bugs and sending it back into a contaminated pool. So its contaminated again. Now the promoters claim that the rate of sanitization can keep pace with the proliferation of bugs.. REALLY?
During summer with high temps, a lot of swimmers, and perhaps a few nitrates and phospates from bird poo dropped in for good measure I have seen pools turn green in front of me (within a hour).
So I can assure you that this system is inadequate for all occassions unless your pool is very very small and you would have to suppliment with chlorine as wellif you want to run a sterile pool and look after the health of your family. So wat's the point?
There is no real reason to be affraid of or want to move away from chlorine, it has worked well for centuries and if you understand how to manage it, it will work well for you. If you don't want to know anything about it at all and want the pool to look after itself, then you need an automatic doser. see my website http://www.poolguy.fr/products/product-sanitization.htm
I hope that this has been of help.
Andrew
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Most of the pool systems in Australia are run that way - Using the Chemigem as the controller of the pump as well as the Chlor/pH balance as its capabilities are superior to most Coffre Electric Clocks.
However it has been the habit of most pool installations in France to use the Coffre Electric to do this job, so we normally don't interfere with that as in your case Tygwenn. But in dire circumstances such as yours John there is no need to replace the Clock when its jiggered when there is a excellent timer controller already on the wall. You will have noticed that its easier to select the times for the pump to run using the nice big button then those annoying little peg affairs on the clock.
Anyway, thanks for the posting and glad that you have got a result.
Andrew
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Just a note.
Underfloor heating is perfect for a evacuated tube solar system as it runs on lower temps than radiators.
If you want to know more about how to get your heat Free (end ecologically) then PM me and I keep you informed of the installation on my house.
Andrew
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Sharkster
If you send me your details telephone unber and address via PM then I xan help you with either the Coolpool tester or the Scuba +
Either of these devices will provide an accurate and comprehensive management regime for your pool water. Most of the issues related to their use and pool water chemistry generally is available on my website www.poolguy.fr in the Q&A section.
Thanks to Jonsjob for his help and recommendations.
Regards
Andrew
water testing
in Swimming Pools in France
Posted
Chris from Piscine Plus answered for me.
You can seem more on Scuba+ and Palin test on my website.
Its good to get new visitors and new members and all are welcome.
But please understand that everyone contributes to this site as an assistance voluntarily and its a bit thick to say that we ‘couldn't be bothered’.
It’s the middle of the season, you must know that and I for one do not get to my bed before 1am any night as the work load is crippling.
I contribute as much as I can as you can see from my post total, but I cannot offer comment to everyone, especially if it was covered amply in the same week on other threads or by other posters.
Never the less I hope that you have found what you are looking for.
Andrew