[French Gov't Order of Feb 6 re Hard Brexit]

With respect Judith, putting a foreign text into English that accurately reflects the technicalities is the essence of the translator's job. If it doesn't, then it's a poor translation. Sometimes the best translation looks very different when put side by side with the original, because trying to stay very close to the original simply didn't work and it's been necessary to change the structure quite a lot to arrive at the same meaning. But only a human translator knows when this is necessary; most automatic translation engines translate the words but don't understand the meaning. If they've translated all the words they've done their job, they don't care whether the translation they've produced means the same as the original, or indeed whether it means anything at all.

And of course there's the issue that these texts don't spell out absolutely everything. They make reference to other texts and existing arrangements and agreements, so to get the full meaning it is also necessary to either understand the references or go away and check them out.

For instance I think one of the paragraphs says something about Brits will be entitled to healthcare on the same basis as other residents. Obviously, if you don't know the basis on which other residents are entitled to healthcare, you won't know what this means even if you have a perfect translation of the words.

[French Gov't Order of Feb 6 re Hard Brexit]

CT, please. It's been explained to you that your father has nothing to worry about. Everyone who has lived here legally for over 5 years is entitled to join the French healthcare system, and Brexit won't change this. EVERY SINGLE French text that's been published has confirmed this. If your dad is a pensioner on a low income he will have nothing to pay, if he has a substantial income he may have to contribute a little but not more than he can afford.

If you and your father are determined to worry then we can't stop you, but that is your luxury. Please don't blame the French for producing difficult texts in French, try to make forum members feel guilty for having their own lives, and sow worries in other people's minds when it has already been confirmed beyond reasonable doubt.

If you can point to one single reason why your dad is in a special position and might not be entitled to healthcare even though every other Brit retiree who's been resident for 5 years will be, please tell us.

[French Gov't Order of Feb 6 re Hard Brexit]

+1 to that YCCMB.

It worries me when people place blind faith in online translation apps. They're a useful aid to human intelligence, not a replacement. I've known them come up with a translation that's the exact opposite of the source text, simply by misinterpreting a negative expression.

I've always said that translation is a 3-way process - read the source, understand it, then express as close as possible to the same thing in another language. It's the 3rd stage that takes the time - and is only useful to other people because once you've understood it, there's no benefit to yourself in re-expressing it.

[Types of bills for Carte de Sejour]

@CT - don't forget that this latest text is only concerned with the no deal scenario. If there is no deal between the EU and the UK then it's up to each individual EU country to make their own arrangements for dealing with it.

If there is a deal then yes as you say, all countries will do whatever has been agreed in the deal.

[Types of bills for Carte de Sejour]

@Laurier - sorry I can't help there as I didn't provide any bank statements at all.

I'm self employed and for the financial side I provided one document per trimester over 5 years showing how much I had earned and what social contributions I had paid, plus an annual summary of income/cotisations for each year. I didn't see what bank statements would have added, and since this already came to 25 documents in itself I decided enough was enough, and they seemed satisfied.

[Types of bills for Carte de Sejour]

Yes I had also read that Alençon were refusing to take CDS applications from Brits, so I didn't apply until I read that someone had been successful.

I looked at the website recently just to see how long you had to wait for an appointment, and it was showing no slots available, so I wondered if maybe they are planning on changing over to a postal system.

My RDV was for 15 minutes but in fact I was there for nearly half an hour. Was starting to worry about the parking meter, I was late back to the car but luckily no ticket. It seemed to take her that long just to take each document out and look at it, then do whatever she did on the computer (she shut the window so I couldn't see what she was doing) and then the fingerprints. Maybe I just had more paperwork than average (49 documents, 60-odd sheets of paper).

[Types of bills for Carte de Sejour]

Have to say I don't know why people call them "interviews". Either other departments do things differently, or they're translating "rendez vous" as "interview" when it would perhaps be more appropriate to call it an "appointment".

All my "rendez vous" was, was handing over the dossier and filling in a form. She asked me a couple of questions to start off with, just so she understood my situation and what documents I was providing, but it was nothing like an interview. (That was Alençon préfecture.)

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

I think the big difference is that in the UK, once your own estate is exhausted the buck stops there and the taxpayer pays the rest. In France, the children and/or parents of the person in care are obliged to pay what they can afford, and the taxpayer only pays when there are no direct relatives or if the judge decides they can't afford to pay any or all of the cost.

Of course if none of the family has any savings, inevitably they will end up being a burden but what can you do. There will always be people who can't pay their way but you can't use them as the benchmark and say OK so nobody has to pay. Using ability to pay is probably as fair as you can get, the problem is applying it so that no particular niche feels disadvantaged.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

Good poem Norman.

But as you no doubt know, verse 2 doesn't fit with France because there is no way there will be anything for your heirs to inherit unless all your nursing home bills have been paid in full. Your kids may even have to dip into their own bank accounts to pay the fees if there's nothing left in your own estate to pay for it.

And come to that, the staff here wouldn't be on zero hours.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

Well, but if you need to work, your choice is limited by where you can get a job. If you can't drive / need to be near a hospital, those are your limits.

Then there's the ability to pay. I think there may be people living on sink estates in Marseilles and other inner cities who would very much prefer to be living somewhere nicer.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

It's probably nearly time for Macron to pull the fictitious rent idea for owner occupiers out of the hat again, France seems to float the idea every 10 years or so, I think Sarko was the last to bring it up. Owner occupiers have to declare the rental income that they would get if the property was rented out rather than owner occupied (fictitious because they haven't received it) and pay tax on it. I believe Switzerland has this system and calls it "imputed rent".

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

OK Norman, what is your answer to the situation where a person buys a house for say 200k euros. 40 years later they have become elderly and they want to move to a property of equivalent standing and value, but on one floor rather than three. In the meantime, property prices in the area have doubled. They sell for 400k euros and because they've made 200k "profit" they pay tax of say 40k. Which in real terms leaves them 40k short of being able to move sideways to a home of equivalent value to the one they had. Does that seem right to you?

[Types of bills for Carte de Sejour]

I don't know if the different regional CA websites are all the same but on mine, on the panel on the left hand side you go down to e-Documents and you choose Consultation, then you simply choose the account or service that you want to consult the paperwork for, and click on the little blue pointer thingy to the right. It will then list all your statements going back to, in my case, 2011 for the account I've had for longest. I don't know why 2011 because I opened the account in 2007, maybe that's when they started putting them online?

Then you click on the little pdf icon to download a statement.

Hope this helps.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

"And let's never forget those immortal words "the value of your investment can go down as well as up"

Yep, would be fair if the government gives you a credit d'impôt if you sell at a loss.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

"But what if you wish to downsize?"

I don't see what you're getting at.

If you downsize you would normally expect to end up with cash in the bank to balance out owning a lower value property. I don't see why deciding to downsize should mean deciding to reduce your net worth, so if your property is worth less, that should be reflected in the rest of your estate.

If your plus value is taxed, you will end up with a lower net worth. You might break even in terms of what you get from the sale and what you spend on the purchase, but your new property will be worth less.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

Richard, we're talking about primary residences here.

So yes, if you used to live in Paris and you decide to move to the country you will be euros in.

But if you want to move to a larger home in Paris, you're not going to profit from the increase in overall values. If the value of your property has doubled, then the value of the next property you buy will likely have doubled too. Look at it this way: if you're taxed on your gain, you would not in fact be left with enough from the sale to buy the property you have just sold.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

I came back to re-read this because I couldn't quite believe what I'd read, and I still can't get my head round it.

"I can remember hearing people gloating that they were making more money on the increase in value of their house than they were by working and that seems very skewed in favour of those who own property at the expense of those who work."

Even if you only earn around 20k a year, then for a property in France to increase in value by 20k a year, ie 200k over 10 years, would be quite exceptional.

As YCCMB says, the way you put it makes it sound like you think there are the people who own their own home on the one hand, and the people who work on the other hand. Whereas in fact, the typical home owner has to go out to work to pay the bills that come with home ownership, bringing up a family etc.

Maybe you could clarify what you actually did mean because either something has got lost in communication, or ALBF has summed it up.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

Norman, so do you think this should be introduced in the UK as well?

"The word 'home' is just emotional blackmail." How sad when everything has to be reduced to € or £sd.

[Plus Values ..... Macron]

I hadn't heard about that.

The only logic I can see in it is to support artisans and discourage DIY-ers, which is nothing new, it's what happens with maisons secondaires and I don't think that is a bad thing. But extending it to principal residences is out of order. IMHO.

Especially if he is going to change the goalposts for people who have already done the improvements, who might have decided to use artisans if this rule had been in force at the time.

What is wrong with that man ?????

[Types of bills for Carte de Sejour]

If you live near the prefecture, I would go in and explain the position and ask them what they will accept. Or maybe there is an email address for queries. Since all prefectures seem to have slightly different requirements, that would seem to be simplest and most reliable way to find out what they want.

[Types of bills for Carte de Sejour]

"do the bank statements not prove right of residence as well as continuity of residence."

Don't make it more complicated than it is.

What you have to provide, is evidence of continuity of residence.

Once you have proved this then you have also proved your right to reside, because what gives you the right to reside is having been continually resident.

So basically, for pensioners they need tax statements, utility bills, proof of health coverage ie an attestation from CPAM, and proof of income ie pension statements. Plus passport, birth certificate, marriage certificate and however many photos your prefecture asks for. That should be enough, but check with your own prefecture because sometimes they have their own little quirks. Mine insisted I had to get an attestation de domicile from the Mairie so I did, I have no idea what that added to the mix because the mairie issued it purely on the basis of checking my avis d'impôts, but it kept the prefecture happy.

I wasn't asked for bank statements either so as Judith said they probably won't want those.

[Types of bills for Carte de Sejour]

In addition to what you mentioned, your annual avis dimposition prove you have been tax resident.

[Visiting France post Brexit]

@Paul T

"ET my understanding was the 90 days as per the link with no mention of 30 days."

Yes it's 90 days / 3 months. No idea why I wrote 30. Brain fart I suppose, they happen when you get old.

And yes I'm sure some second home owners put a lot into the economy. Others arrive with their car boot full of food etc. The last report I read on the subject came to the conclusion that second home owners spend less per visit than tourists who stay in tourist accommodation, eat at restaurants and do all the touristy things that involve going sightseeing, spending money on visitor attractions etc. I don't know where they got their figures from or whether it took property taxes into the equation. As long as the EHIC card is maintained I don't think Brexit is going to change anything for second home owners, there might be a bit more paperwork and potentially a few extra costs that's all.

[Discount stores - removal of old appliance]

I have bought appliances online from darty and the delivery man has always taken the old appliance away.

I seem to remember that when I placed the order I had to state whether I needed anything taking away or not. Maybe there was a small charge, I can't remember.

Maybe sometimes the service is included for free and sometimes it isn't? You could try going through the motions of placing an order and see whether you are asked the question.

Probably not been much help, sorry !

[Visiting France post Brexit]

+1 to BritinB's comment.

More specific to France, French regulations currently are that any visitor, EU or non EU, is limited to a 30-day stay in France. Many Brits ignore this and probably other EU citizens do as well, because they can, and France has tolerated it for EU citizens. However, overstaying the 30 days without a visa is not tolerated for non EU citizens, which Brits are about to become. Remains to be seen what attitude France adopts but if it starts treating some non EU citizens differently from other non EU citizens that would not really be right and could lead to bad feeling.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F302