Moving to France

[DerekJ]

Stan.  My two penneth on Michel Thomas.  I think the real value of his courses is not the vocabulary but the structure. This is something I'd always struggled with in the past but after the MT courses (Foundation, Advanced and Language Builder) I feel that I now understand the general structure and verb conjugations a lot better. The vocabulary he uses is very limited and not sufficient in itself to really get by on.  Btw. I found his (and it isn't him doing it - he was dead by then) French Vocabulary course absolutely awful.

I guess the other thing is his prononciation... a bit suspect at times I think.... but overall I think his courses are excellent.

[tuppence]

As someone who got 'O' level french many years ago, I found it easier than most to get back into using French when I moved here. However like most of us, verb conjugation was a problem. So I bought 'Verbs for Dummies' the yellow book. Magic for me anyway. For people who want to learn the basics I also bought a book 'French in 3 months' and before most of you start laughing[:D], it has been a great buy. You must do the exercises in the book though but I guess 2 hours a day for those 3 months is not too much to ask of most people. Other friends have borrowed it and have found it immensely useful. Published by Dorland & Kindersley I purchased both books on Amazon (no links to either company BTW).

tuppence

[Cerise]

Stan - my OH (aged 42 on arrival) had no French at all when we got here.  He has learned the language, learned a new trade and is about to go for a validation of experience to get qualification in the trade - all this in last 7 years.  He is by no means a natural linguist and it was an uphill struggle, but he took advantage of cheap lessons offered locally (5 hours a week for the first couple of years) and did all his homework.  We didn't have UK TV for the first 3 years - that was a bit of a sacrifice for me as I understand perfectly but still dislike French TV.  We didn't have UK papers either and I was even horrid enough to make him have French classic car magazines instead of Practical Classics[6].  He found Michel Thomas useful in that it was good for structure and he could listen to it whilst renovating etc.

The most important thing was getting out there and doing it!  I picked up several pocket dictionaries in somewhere cheap (The Works I think) and he kept one in the car, one by the phone etc and I made him do things by himself.  He used to head off for garage etc armed with a bit of paper with the words on and our phone number so that if he really got in a mess he could get them to ring.  The most important thing was that I didn't go with him, so he couldn't get me to do it for him.  It may sound unkind, but it is easy to let someone else do the work if you aren't sure - if you have to do it yourself you'll find you can.  It also helped him enormmously becoming a member of a classic car club - his real passion - so he needed to communicate with fellow enthusiasts.  Talking about things which interest you is a sure fire way of moving forward.

Most people are never going to be 100% fluent or have perfect accents, but if they really want to they can get to a reasonble standard.  the reason that most don't is that they stay in their comfort zone, never try to read the local paper, watch French TV, go to the cinema in French etc.

 

[velcorin]

Cerise. I like your method. I have a similar problem. I'm not a natural linguist, though I got top grades in GCSEs for France and Spanish, I work for a company whose corporate language is English, we don't have UK TV, but we only speak English at home, and anything awkward I leave to my missus. At big family parties I just switch off and avoid participating in conversations, it gets very boring.

So, starting tomorrow no more using the missus as an unpaid translator, I'm going to tackle the difficult stuff as well. Dictionary and note pad, plus portable.

Sad really, because I'm being moved to Switzerland in 3 months, so it's  bit late now really.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Cerise"]

 The most important thing was that I didn't go with him, so he couldn't get me to do it for him.  It may sound unkind, but it is easy to let someone else do the work if you aren't sure - if you have to do it yourself you'll find you can.

[/quote]

Marry me, Cerise.

I have passed many a happy hour in the car parks of brico sheds for exactly the reasons you outline. It's the only way.......

[Benjamin]

[quote user="P2"]

Why not go for a win-win situation in a case such as this. Your wife could have talked to them in French and they could reply in English.

[/quote]

That's actually exactly what happened so all wasn't lost.

Betty you've given me the perfect excuse for all the things I don't remember. "It's OK dear I've been going backwards ever since we met".

[Chancer]

Cerise

What you have described pretty much echos my experience for the last 4 years in France, I was 45 when I arrived.

Being single and not speaking the language I was straight away outside of my comfort zone, I had no-one to help me (just like your husband!) and am thankfull for it. IMHO You were kind to be cruel to him [:D]

In hindsight the only regret that I have is having English TV, although I had nothing for the first year and have only had French TV for the last 2 years grace à my skybox going tits up, I honestly dont think that I would have had the strength to willingly give it up and I am sure that if I had a working receiver here I would crack. for that reason I will not buy one for another couple of years.

Early on I set myself what I thought to be an impossible target (as is my way) that was to be able not just to converse in French but express emotion, desires, argue my point not be browbeaten etc including on the telephone and to have the confidence to tackle any situation without preparation.

To my surprise I have busted through that goal and am thinking what the next one should be, citizenship certainly but perhaps a recognised level of fluency including written.

PS

My level of attainment at school was an unclassified grade at O level back in the days when you were allowed to fail things, which I did with distinction [:D]

[soon2retire]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Sweets - ask your o/h (and those other people whom you help out) what he would do if you were in a car accident and unconscious for ten days, in intensive care for a month, and in hospital for six months or more after that?   My o/h, who at least had A level French but very rusty as it's over 40 years ago, has always tried to join in in French but does struggle with complicated things, has had a real baptism of fire over the last few months.  I don't know what he would have done if his language skills had been non existant.

Cerise, Tony and Wendy, I am with you.  It's so selfish to expect somebody else to always be on hand to sort out your problems.  Would those who expect it ever think that their neighbours in the UK would help them with tax returns/car registration/doctor's visits etc.  No way, Jose. So why is it acceptable here?  Now, I don't mind helping out a bit with close friends, but if they don't ever make the slightest effort to learn the lingo, my patience would run out pretty quickly, I am sure.  Nobody likes to be taken for granted and in my case, it's not a good idea as now I'm not in a position to continue to help out.

On the other hand, I'd never say don't come if you don't speak French.  Simply if you are coming, make the effort to learn, and don't rely on others to do your work for you.  They have a life too. 

[/quote]

Sorry for replying to post of sometime ago and without gettimg to the end of the thread, but I feel I must add my few pennies worth here.

You can move to a foreign country (not just France) without knowing the language - but life is so much harder for you.

I think that many of the objections to the "immigrants into the UK is that they don't speak English and thus cannot integrate into the community / culture etc. but want to stay in their national "clicks".

No, I don't live in France - but I am contemplating doing so - or returning to the UK. I am currently living in Argentina and really enjoy the life here (and the cost of living). I learnt Spanish (to a reasonable level) while living in Spain for seven years.

I also speak French (or used to - it's now some 30 years since I used it!).

To me - the first and major stepping stone is to have a reasonable grasp of the native language. I moved to Spain to live with the Spanish, not ex-pats. I started out on the Costa del Sol and after  nearly four years there it became more like living in a British colony! Thus I moved inland to a small town - and not an English speaker in the region - apart from some Spanish school teachers whose command of English was terrible.

My advice if you want a happy and eventful live in any country of your choice - learn the language first and foremost.