Hydrocephalus

[CSCosford]

The principal reason why there has been stony silence from Hertfordshire is because me OH had to go into the UCLH for a 5 day lumbar puncture due to suspected hydrocephalus.

Question now is {as we are still longing to return to LBF}, would we be able to obtain insurance {we had AXA previously} for a pre-existing condition, and would we be able to register with a neurologist?

Thank you for all positive responses {perhaps not from ALBF]!

[alittlebitfrench]

Well, I may as well answer. For our dementia French Aunt it is a good 8 months waiting list to see a neurologist. Serious cases obviously not. We have 4 hospitals in a 10-20 min drive.

French healthcare is in as much turmoil as the UK.

Go on doctolib and try and book an appointment. See what the situation is like in Bergerac.

That is the only advice I can offer.

 

[DaveLister]

ALBF makes a good suggestion. Doctolib can give a general idea as to how strained services are in a particular area.

[menthe]

Only thing I would say is that getting an appointment with a specialist is much easier if you have a letter of referral from a medecin traitant. 

The MT can ring a specialist and hurry your appointment along.  Even when I need to ring for an appointment myself, I will always get a letter and almost the first thing I say when I ring for a hospital or specialist appointment is something along the lines of I wish to request a rdv and I have a letter for you from my doctor.

Only yesterday I had to ring for a PET scan for my husband, and it was easy as falling off a log once I told them the contents of the MT's letter.

Also I know that my husband's heart specialist will not see anyone without a referral letter.  I must admit that I don't know about a neurologist but I thought I'd let you know the procedure I go through as I imagine it would be more or less the same for all specialists. 

[NormanH]

The last time I  had an appointment with a neurologist I phoned up, and this secretary said that only private appointments were available, and for one of those I had to fax I letter from my MT. it is now a three week waiting list for a RDV with him, and once I had faxed the letter I had an appointment six weeks later late on a Friday evening after the consultant had everybody else.

Total waiting time for an urgent private appointment nearly 3 months.

My MT send me for a TEP scan at the specialist cancer clinic where I am usually treated, but they refuse to accept his letter, as he isn't one of their consultants; so I had to make an appointment with one of them to get the referral.

In other words it depends very much on local circumstances.

 

[NormanH]

12 hours ago, CSCosford said:

The principal reason why there has been stony silence from Hertfordshire is because me OH had to go into the UCLH for a 5 day lumbar puncture due to suspected hydrocephalus.

Question now is {as we are still longing to return to LBF}, would we be able to obtain insurance {we had AXA previously} for a pre-existing condition, and would we be able to register with a neurologist?

Thank you for all positive responses {perhaps not from ALBF]!

If I am reading this correctly, you wish to come to France and clutter up an already overworked system into which you will only contribute the marginal costs of your treatment, to the detriment of French patients who have paid into and built up both the infrastructure, and the personnel all their lives; including in retirement, since French pensioners, unlike English ones, continue to pay the equivalent of National Insurance.

[menthe]

6 hours ago, NormanH said:

The last time I  had an appointment with a neurologist I phoned up, and this secretary said that only private appointments were available, and for one of those I had to fax I letter from my MT. it is now a three week waiting list for a RDV with him, and once I had faxed the letter I had an appointment six weeks later late on a Friday evening after the consultant had everybody else.

Total waiting time for an urgent private appointment nearly 3 months.

My MT send me for a TEP scan at the specialist cancer clinic where I am usually treated, but they refuse to accept his letter, as he isn't one of their consultants; so I had to make an appointment with one of them to get the referral.

In other words it depends very much on local circumstances.

 

As far as I know, where I live, there are no "private appointments".  Even the private hospital in Périgueux seems not to have totally private rdvs.  My surgeon (see him yearly) and my ophthalmo (2 yearly rdvs) do charge but very small amounts which are dépassements honoraire (correct phrase and spelling?)

[CSCosford]

Frankly, I am shocked at your response Norman H. We have paid into the system whilst we lived previously in France.

And what about the thousands of illegal immigrants here in the UK who "clutter up" the already overloaded system?

We have waited +11 months for an appointment to see a neurologist. The above treatment was under the private regime.

 

 

[DaveLister]

23 minutes ago, CSCosford said:

We have paid into the system whilst we lived previously in France.

You lived in France for 12 years and, during that time, I expect you made use of the medical services available to you. Norman's remarks are curt but he does have a point. We have all tried to explain to you that the French health service is under tremendous strain and, unfortunately, your medical needs appear to be numerous. You may want us to say that you can just swan into the office of the nearest neurosurgeon and everything will be fine but, if we did that, we'd be lying. The only way to find out is to make enquiries in the area that you are looking to move to ( as some of us have advised ). Who knows you might get lucky.

 

31 minutes ago, CSCosford said:

what about the thousands of illegal immigrants here in the UK who "clutter up" the already overloaded system?

I do think it's slightly ironic that ( apart from the illegal bit ) you are attempting to do the same in France.

[Lori]

21 hours ago, CSCosford said:

would we be able to register with a neurologist?

I don't think any of us can answer your question.  I think we've made it as clear as possible that it can be extremely difficult to find ANY doctor accepting new patients; especially outside major cities.

As has been suggested, the only way you will get a clear answer to your question is to pick up the phone and start calling Neurosurgeons (and any other specialists or even MT's you need) in the towns you are considering living.  You can probably shorten the list of doctor names by checking on Doctolib as many will clearly state they are not accepting new patients so you can check them off the list without having to call.

The phone calls will give you your definitive answer.

Make a list and start calling.

[NormanH]

2 hours ago, menthe said:

As far as I know, where I live, there are no "private appointments".  Even the private hospital in Périgueux seems not to have totally private rdvs.  My surgeon (see him yearly) and my ophthalmo (2 yearly rdvs) do charge but very small amounts which are dépassements honoraire (correct phrase and spelling?)

This article is old but dates from the time I had my appointment.

I didn't like the idea (vy principle as much as for the extra cost, but it was  the ONLY way to get ito his list

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/patient/droits-et-demarches/consultations-privees-a-l-hopital-une-medecine-a-deux-vitesses_3402145.html

 

[menthe]

Extremely interesting article, Norman.

I believe that for the dépassements honoraires, the practitioner can choose to impose them to a limit (can't remember what it's called) advised by the health authority and the likely eventual cost is always given to the patient in written form, BEFORE the procedure takes place.

I have a special insurance with my mutuelle for hospital stays.  And that pays out as long as I have to stay in the hospital, even as an outpatient.  They pay the dépassements and the extra cost of a private room, etc up to a certain limit.  In my case,  what the mutuelle pays is nearly always sufficient to cover everything.

The other interesting point in your article is this:

"Paradoxalement, vous pouvez vous retrouver avec une facture plus lourde à l'hôpital que dans une clinique privée."  And indeed that is the case for individual rooms in our hospital, the "public" hospital charges more than the private one.

 

[CSCosford]

3 hours ago, DaveLister said:

You lived in France for 12 years and, during that time, I expect you made use of the medical services available to you. Norman's remarks are curt but he does have a point. We have all tried to explain to you that the French health service is under tremendous strain and, unfortunately, your medical needs appear to be numerous. You may want us to say that you can just swan into the office of the nearest neurosurgeon and everything will be fine but, if we did that, we'd be lying. The only way to find out is to make enquiries in the area that you are looking to move to ( as some of us have advised ). Who knows you might get lucky.

 

I do think it's slightly ironic that ( apart from the illegal bit ) you are attempting to do the same in France.

Your points are taken at face value, thank you. However, two of us would hardly "clutter up" the system [as Norman H wrote], whereas :

 

• 6,265 small boat arrivals compared to 5,049 in the same period last year, an increase of 24%. They are hardly likely to pay

[DaveLister]

9 minutes ago, CSCosford said:

6,265 small boat arrivals compared to 5,049 in the same period last year, an increase of 24%. They are hardly likely to pay

Utterly irrelevant to the conversation at hand.

11 minutes ago, CSCosford said:

two of us would hardly "clutter up" the system

Tell that to ALBF's aunt.

[NormanH]

3 hours ago, menthe said:

Extremely interesting article, Norman.

I believe that for the dépassements honoraires, the practitioner can choose to impose them to a limit (can't remember what it's called) advised by the health authority and the likely eventual cost is always given to the patient in written form, BEFORE the procedure takes place.

I have a special insurance with my mutuelle for hospital stays.  And that pays out as long as I have to stay in the hospital, even as an outpatient.  They pay the dépassements and the extra cost of a private room, etc up to a certain limit.  In my case,  what the mutuelle pays is nearly always sufficient to cover everything.

The other interesting point in your article is this:

"Paradoxalement, vous pouvez vous retrouver avec une facture plus lourde à l'hôpital que dans une clinique privée."  And indeed that is the case for individual rooms in our hospital, the "public" hospital charges more than the private one.

 

https://mon.apicil.com/salon-client/optam-comment-ca-marche/

My Mutelle will pay  the extra for OPTAM1 but not for OPTAM2.. yours may be different but I recently downscaled as my previous monthly charge was 280 euros, so I changed to the one organised by  the town which  benefits from bull purchase..

Edited August 3 by NormanH
adding

[menthe]

41 minutes ago, NormanH said:

https://mon.apicil.com/salon-client/optam-comment-ca-marche/

My Mutelle will pay  the extra for OPTAM1 but not for OPTAM2.. yours may be different but I recently downscaled as my previous monthly charge was 280 euros, so I changed to the one organised by  the town which  benefits from bull purchase..

Ah yes, thank you, that was the word I meant OPTAM1!

The strange thing is, I have a pneumologue in the clinic who doesn't charge me anything.  Similarly an opthalmo also from the clinic who didn't charge me anything for 2 cataract removals.

I have never been treated in the central hospitalier but OH has been treated there a few times, including stays in intensive care, blood transfusion, surgery, neurological assessment, etc and never been asked to pay a single centime.

During the height of the covid crisis, the public hospital took in all the covid cases but the private clinic did all the surgeries and other stuff from the hospital.  When beds got really tight, they did make about 6 beds available for covid cases  in the clinic but in fact they were never used.

I thought it was wonderful how both those establishments worked together so sensibly to look after patients.

[menthe]

This is addressed to the OP and CS Cosford, I hope you will take my post as made with the best of intentions.

Firstly, wouldn't it be best for you to establish that you ARE eligible to enter the French health care system?  That's to say, are you absolutely certain that you can both move here and be able to get your cartes vitale straightaway?

Secondly, given your husband's poor state of health, can he make the move to France without detrimental effects to his physical and mental health?  After all, moving house is in itself stressful, nevermind moving to another country altogether.

You really do need to prioritise what has to be done before upping sticks and moving over.  It's a case of first things first....

[NormanH]

49 minutes ago, menthe said:

Ah yes, thank you, that was the word I meant OPTAM1!

The strange thing is, I have a pneumologue in the clinic who doesn't charge me anything.  Similarly an opthalmo also from the clinic who didn't charge me anything for 2 cataract removals.

I have never been treated in the central hospitalier but OH has been treated there a few times, including stays in intensive care, blood transfusion, surgery, neurological assessment, etc and never been asked to pay a single centime.

During the height of the covid crisis, the public hospital took in all the covid cases but the private clinic did all the surgeries and other stuff from the hospital.  When beds got really tight, they did make about 6 beds available for covid cases  in the clinic but in fact they were never used.

I thought it was wonderful how both those establishments worked together so sensibly to look after patients.

Are you sure that your Ameli account isn't being debited for the various ' participations forfaitaires'. They are usually charged even to people who have an ALD, as is the daily 20€ during a Hospital  stay (hotel charges if you  like)

If these things aren't asked for in advance you build up a debit which is  then deducted from your reimbursement  the next time you actually fork out ..https://www.ameli.fr/herault/assure/actualites/participations-forfaitaires-ce-qui-change-au-15-mai   

you may have to put in your post code if you  click on that link.

[Lehaut]

To add to menthe's comment and given in the same sympathetic vein, would it not be more economical to go private in the UK (assuming the service is available for your conditions).  The "lost" money you are going to shell out on immobilier/notaire/moving/home improvement etc could, perhaps be better spent on UK private health care preventing the extra stress that menthe mentions?

[Lori]

I can agree with everything that Menthe and Lehaut have said.

I think I suggested this before on a different thread, but if you truly intend to make this move, why not take a short term rental (say 60 days) to do a thorough investigation.  Choose your most favored town/village and stay there.  I'd still contact all the doctors in this favored town/village before arriving so you can rule it out if it is obvious you won't be able to find doctors to accept you.  If so, you'd have to move to the next favored town/village to research.

If you manage to make appointments via phone prior to visiting, all the better.  You can then review your health needs during your appointment(s) and you can take the time to visit/research all the hospital options within your reach, pharmacies, overall commerce, etc..

With your obvious medical needs, I personally, would not give up the residence in the UK until you had secured a long term rental in France and maintained it for long enough to apply for and obtain health coverage in France.  That may involve a bit of to and fro'ing, but at least you would be able to maintain the care you do have (albeit not to the quality you are happy with).

With serious health conditions, I would be extremely careful with your plans.  There are a great many people in the French system who are forced to wait years for various procedures.  It can put a huge burden on you and your family.

 

 

[CSCosford]

Menthe, Lehaut and Lori. Many thanks for your kind, helpful and sympathetic suggestions, all of which are very sound advice.

It's not simply the health situation with which we are totally dissatisfied, but the general parsimonious and mean-spirited attitude which we encounter in our daily lives.

This very seldom, if ever happened whilst we lived in South Africa, Perth, Zürich, Antwerp or Evian-les-Bains. The French lifestyle suits us much better.

Can you all imagine the incredible culture {or lack of it} shock we encountered after living overseas for 44 years and returning her? No, you cannot.

Anyway, we are considering all our options and calmly assessing which of these will be best in the long run. BTW, private consultation + MRI + BP monitor during one day, cost us £1200.00. We simply cannot sustain vast sums such as these but thank you for the thought.

[alittlebitfrench]

1 hour ago, CSCosford said:

Menthe, Lehaut and Lori. Many thanks for your kind, helpful and sympathetic suggestions, all of which are very sound advice.

It's not simply the health situation with which we are totally dissatisfied, but the general parsimonious and mean-spirited attitude which we encounter in our daily lives.

This very seldom, if ever happened whilst we lived in South Africa, Perth, Zürich, Antwerp or Evian-les-Bains. The French lifestyle suits us much better.

Can you all imagine the incredible culture {or lack of it} shock we encountered after living overseas for 44 years and returning her? No, you cannot.

Anyway, we are considering all our options and calmly assessing which of these will be best in the long run. BTW, private consultation + MRI + BP monitor during one day, cost us £1200.00. We simply cannot sustain vast sums such as these but thank you for the thought.

Let me correct you. The French lifestyle suits you better as an immigrant. Like the immigrants that you were complaining about earlier in the thread moving to the UK.

Most French can’t pick and choose where to live in France. You go where the work is. You pay your tax and get healthcare.

If you live the French lifestyle as most French do…..you would be hopping back off to the Uk with your tail between your legs.

I don’t think you have life so bad compared to most in France.

 

Edited August 4 by alittlebitfrench

[NormanH]

22 hours ago, CSCosford said:

Your points are taken at face value, thank you. However, two of us would hardly "clutter up" the system [as Norman H wrote], whereas :

 

• 6,265 small boat arrivals compared to 5,049 in the same period last year, an increase of 24%. They are hardly likely to pay

How many of them will have come specifically to see a neurosurgeon for an existing condition?  If you need to blame someone for the problems you are encountering in the NHS, consider the effects of a policy of 14 years of austerity on the provision.

[NormanH]

" It's not simply the health situation with which we are totally dissatisfied, but the general parsimonious and mean-spirited attitude which we encounter in our daily lives" Attitudes such as blaming immigrants for your woes? 😂

[menthe]

20 hours ago, NormanH said:

Are you sure that your Ameli account isn't being debited for the various ' participations forfaitaires'. They are usually charged even to people who have an ALD, as is the daily 20€ during a Hospital  stay (hotel charges if you  like)

If these things aren't asked for in advance you build up a debit which is  then deducted from your reimbursement  the next time you actually fork out ..https://www.ameli.fr/herault/assure/actualites/participations-forfaitaires-ce-qui-change-au-15-mai   

you may have to put in your post code if you  click on that link.

I must admit I do not pay too much attention.  In fact, have been more than a bit overwhelmed with all that I am suddenly required to do.  Now have to do all the driving and accompany OH to all his appointments as he cannot be relied on to either understand or remember what is said.  This has been a dreadful shock to me as this is the person who is clear thinking and is normally the one I go to when I have important decisions to make.  What a turnaround of my life!

With the clinic, the procedure is that I pay upfront and ask for a bordereau which sets out exactly who pays for what.  I then send the bordereau to the mutuelle and they reimburse me directly into my bank account.

This most recent time of OH being in hospital, the mutuelle themselves emailed me and said they were dealing with the hospital direct and that I would not be required to do anything.  Naturally, I have been waiting for a bill from the hospital.  But, so far, none has arrived.

I am in the happy position that, should any amount be outstanding, I will be able to pay it, even if it is biggish.