Re: WB might not like this at all............

[mint]

I quote directly:

Nous vous recommendons de ne pas garder d'oisseaux dans la cuisine.

I notice Patf saying on another thread that you can't do much cooking, dear Wools.  So then, if you can't keep birds in the kitchen either, what are you going to do for meals?[:D][:P]

OK, better give you the context I suppose.

I bought 2 cooking tins from Aldi and after all the usual guff about washing before use, not using a knife to cut things on it, da, de, da, de, da, it explains that you shouldn't use them to cook on too high temperatures in case of fumes.

Because, so it goes:

La fumée peut-être dangereuse pour les animaux, comme par exemple les oiseaux, qui ont un système respiratoire particulièrement sensible.

Well, I have un système respiratoire vraiment sensible too, but it's no good me giving that as an excuse for not cooking because OH is about as useful in the kitchen as a bicycle is to a goldfish.

[NormanH]

"I quote directly:

Nous vous recommendons de ne pas garder d'oisseaux dans la cuisine."

Are you sure that that is an exact quotation?   I would have expected 'des oiseaux' [8-)]

[mint]

Yup, just checked the label again and it's as above.

Anyway, if it's "pas de" whatever, isn't that what you would say for

"pas de oisseaux"?

Unless of course the pans were made in China or Poland or Chekoslovakia, in which case perhaps something DID get lost in translation?

[NormanH]

But it isn't pas d'oiseaux (single 's' in any case) (no birds)

the pas is to negate the imperative verb  'pas de garder ' not the structure with pas de followed by a noun

  

So it is pas de garder des oiseaux (not to keep birds)

[mint]

Norman, I guess WB would settle for just the one bird (in the singular) in the kitchen?[:D]

[Loiseau]

Nous vous recommendons de ne pas garder d'oisseaux dans la cuisine

Hmm. If it really does have the extra S in oiseaux, maybe it is a translation from the Chinese.

However, isn't it OK, Norman, to use d' in this context?

In my schooldays, we learnt that one used "de", instead of "du", "de la" and "des":

After a negative, before an adjective, and after any measure or quantity... (I have to sort of sing it in my head, as we used to have to chant that phrase in unison.)

Angrla

PS. Mint, for the record, the wooly one is a GREAT cook!

[woolybanana]

Surely, de ne pas garder des oiseaux?

My little bird is presently on expedition in the north but keeps me posted with ipad billing and cooing. Then, knowing I have eaten little, she rubs it in by telling me of the five star menus she has been tucking into. Hence her new name 'Plump Bird'

[Loiseau]

...de ne pas garder de beurre dans la cuisine...

Sounds better to me than

...de ne pas garder DU beurre dans la cuisine...

so I still think my French teacher was right. Maybe Clair will be along soon to give us the official line!

Angela

[mint]

Yes, probably a translation as the following sentence; "la fumée est peut-être" etc; misses a verb.

Don't know about Chinese though, Angela, as the French themselves are perfectly capable of making grammatical errors[:)]

[NormanH]

[quote user="Loiseau"]Nous vous recommendons de ne pas garder d'oisseaux dans la cuisine

Hmm. If it really does have the extra S in oiseaux, maybe it is a translation from the Chinese.

However, isn't it OK, Norman, to use d' in this context?

In my schooldays, we learnt that one used "de", instead of "du", "de la" and "des":

After a negative, before an adjective, and after any measure or quantity... (I have to sort of sing it in my head, as we used to have to chant that phrase in unison.)

Angrla

PS. Mint, for the record, the wooly one is a GREAT cook![/quote]

It is true that the 'de' after 'pas' is unchangeable in the construction 'pas de'   pas de beurre not pas du beurre..

The same with 'beaucoup de.'  'beaucoup de gens' not beaucoup des gens.

but here the 'pas' isn't with the 'de' it is with the 'ne' before..

Not 'gardez pas d'oiseaux'  which means 'keep no birds '

but 'Ne gardez pas des oiseaux ' don't keep  birds'

Of course betty ot ericd or claire might come and correct me...

[YCCMB]

I've spent the day NOT correcting people because I've been doing language assessments, so I am planning to finish the day as I began...although if memory serves, this is not the first time in the recent past that we've had this discussion.

I think I did rather well, by the way. Especially when one candidate revealed "Je suis quatorze", and another kept saying "a plus" when he wanted to say "more". [:D]

[idun]

...... and maybe Betty, they were just having a moment of lateral thinking and wanting an A+ for their work?[;-)]

[YCCMB]

Snigger...well, Idun, I wouldn't have been handing many out! Specially not to Mr "Je suis quatorze", who followed that up with a very confident "tu t'appelles......" (I would have been prepared to overlook the familiarity)whilst looking me straight in the eye, and then completed the sentence with what turned out to be the name of his daughter.

[mint]

Ok, I too think that it's pas des oiseaux.

And, for the record, the tins are made in Germany!

Blazes, can't have a bit of levity here (Norman, cf another thread about levity) without everyone getting serious about bloody grammar[+o(]

[YCCMB]

I was having my own levity. [:$]

[mint]

Your own levity?

No, DON'T tell me you can self-levitate in addition to all the other stuff you can do?[blink]

[YCCMB]

If called upon.... [:D]

[NormanH]

Of course one might also say  ne gardez pas les oiseaux, which on reflection is what I prefer.

[YCCMB]

Or ne pas garder....