My new baby!

[Christine Animal]

It's not a free country for everything, it's not the Far West, and there are laws as mentioned above.

 

[Pads]

Chris have you ever thought that living a life where you grow things and help thing to live would create a better karma around you and your family. Can you truley look at your self in a mirror , in the eyes of your children after killing something in such a brutal manner and feel at peace with nature around you? I use to think as a child my father was good man , my hero, (He was the man who taught me to grow seeds) until the day he killed one of our chickens for a sunday dinner. none of us 6 children could eat that dinner for crying , and I never looked at that man in the same way again. you cant give life with one hand and kill with the other. Its not as natural as you think...............[:(]   

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

It's not a free country for everything, it's not the Far West, and there are laws as mentioned above.

 

[/quote]True.  But I guess our OP has decided to ignore this anyway.  I still have horrible visions of a half dead ram careering around Chris's barn in panic and agony. What I should have said of course was that there's just no way to change some people's minds.  That's the point about advice - one is certainly free to ignore that.

[WJT]

This is Ludicrous! Where is Chrispp when you need him? ChrisH, I know you like to talk big about your killing methods and have boasted in the past about shooting a pig in the head and posted the picture as well as boasting about killing wild animals illegally. But this is not about your ego at the moment nor your skill with a gun. This is about an animals right and welfare. This is illegal for a reason![:@]

It does appear you do not like to take advice from people and want to prove a point to the detriment of a living animal. Bodging DIY is up to you but this does affect something else, not to mention the way in which you are trying to deal with and raise these poor animals.[:(]

[Christine Animal]

Why tell us all in the first place and now even add a picture of him.  It's just provocation, something which you perhaps enjoy Chris.

 

[cooperlola]

Yeah, WJT, when I think about how many years it was that I agonised about whether I was ready or fit to keep my own horse, in spite, or possibly because, of the fact that I had worked with them and been around them for years.  Then people just bumble in as if it's just something you "pick up as you go along" with no thought for the poor beast who has to suffer amateur hour all the time.  People do have to start somewhere, Chris, but husbandry skills are learnt over generations - and good animal handlers listen when those who have  more experience pass on their advice.  Grr.

[Bugsy]

I have really been hoping that this thread about the ram was just a bit of a wind-up and Chris would eventually 'come clean'. It's starting to look, though as if he is really being serious and on that basis I have a bit of advice for him.

Using a .22 rimfire at close range is utterly stupid. Yes, he will die, but not cleanly and not quickly. It is a completely unsuitable weapon for that size of animal. They are effective on smaller animals such as rabbits right up to, possibly a fox under the right conditions. Even using a low power (sub-sonic) bullet it carries very little impact weight and a lot of speed. It will therefore cause little shock and could pass right through the animal. The shock part is very important as it ensures that the animal doesn't suffer.

I speak with some authority on the matter of weapons being a target shooter for many years. I am a member of a Stand de Tir in france and shoot in competition .22 rifle, .22 pistol, .38 combat pistol and .177 rifle (air).

If you really are determined to do this Chris at least borrow a full-bore weapon from a neighbour to ensure that you don't have to watch an animal dying in absolute agony. 

[cooperlola]

Buggs, I think a small part of me was hoping you were going to say it might bounce back off the poor old ram's skull and ricochet into Chris, but that's just plain cruelty to human beings!  I have witnessed several animals being humanely slaughtered (I always insist on being there if they know me, as it tends to keep them calmer) and it's always been a "humane killer",with a bolt, that is used.

[Pads]

Sorry havnt been arsed to read the whole thread picked up half way through, why is this animal on death row any way? is it because it got into a fight ith chris and won?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Dirty Tom"]Sorry havnt been arsed to read the whole thread picked up half way through, why is this animal on death row any way? is it because it got into a fight ith chris and won?[/quote][:D]

[Tresco]

Chris you're being so stubborn about this, I'm thinking you should give the Ram the gun and let him do a 'trick' shot; between your ears.

No harm will be done, eh?

[WJT]

Bugbear, he has done this with a huge pig before and posted the photo as it was being slashed opened hanging from a crane as a joke. This is not a man that cares about the law and the suffering of animals. Oh but he will preach all day about people that work on the black! [:-))]

Sorry Chris, I thought the pig incident was forgotten but all brought back up again as a reminder. I did ignore the few posts that you have mentioned killing anything whether it is illegal or not.  But because I feel strongly about this, it is hard to ignore.

Cooperlola, I do know exactly how you feel. I for one take owning any pet very seriously and they do have a major impact on the way one lives. It is very upsetting to me for others to take it so lightly, in fact there is another thread of this sort on the forum now regarding some unwanted puppies. But this is beyond the pale.

[Christine Animal]

Oh WJT, I love the way you are !   [:P]    Actually, I was just going back to those puppies...

 

[Chris Head]

BB, a .22 if hollow pointed will spread on impact, the sheep will die instantly, there wont be any suffering. Also a hollowpoint will deccelerate rapidly, greatly reducing the round exiting and causing hazard. Full bore is too risky at that range BB. Just one of the reasons I'm taking this on is because using the traditional method here is not a particularly nice way for the sheep to go, there is pain and no dignity...period. 

I live in rural France and most farmers keep and kill their own stock. I've seen a pig killed with what can only be described as a huge mallett, it took quite a while for it to die. Geese are killed over the drain, the farmers wife holds the body of the bird, the farmer holds the head and slides his knife into the neck of the bird and slowly bleeds it to death, running the blood into the drain, not cricket old boy. It's just life guys, perhaps not a culture most of you are used to or understand but it is the culture where we live and I didn't come here to be an alien, at least I have the ability and the will to change the things I don't particularly agree with or like. I completely und utterly respect everything everybody is saying, and WJT hasn't called me any names....yet![:D]

Does anybody honestly think that the country folk here are reading the rule book in the evening to see what they are allowed to do and what's not allowed? It's not even a conversation I would have with any of them, I know the derision the subject would attract.

Integration and accepting a way of life is about more than a trip to the boulangerie and the odd apero evening, in the depths of many parts of France life is as it has always been, that's where we live and how we live. It's not at all easy at times but it is pretty much raw life, we don't have financial security but we do have the will to survive, and every little thing I can learn and glean from my community here helps, including killing an animal that will feed us well.

Perhaps subconciously that's why I started this thread, I dunno. Chrispy pea is staying well clear of this, he doesn't like my methodology or thought trains any more than many of you do.

[Jonzjob]

Chris, I am a lot older than you and have probably seen a lot more in one way or another. Will you take a small bit of very serious advise from me. You have dug yourself a very large hole. For christ sake STOP DIGGING [I].

I did believe that you were going to go ahead with this, unlike Bugbear. But I didn't realise that you were going to try to put yourself in the photo I frigged of you on the gibbet. Either do it or back off, but don't keep on about the bloody thing!!!!!!!!!

You ain't making any friends at the moment and it may take a while for you to regain ANY credit that you have built for yourself.

So if this is a windup, admit it! If not, then SHUT UP ABOUT IT!

[JayJay]

Chris, for someone who says he's so sensitive, I'm sorry, but you seem to be totally the opposite.

After that horrible picture of the the pig you posted on the forum before, especially as the thread was about pet pigs, not about killing them, maybe we shouldn't be surprised! I think your thought trains, ought to be kept to yourself, when they go along these lines!!!!!

[Tresco]

[quote user="Chris Head"]

... and every little thing I can learn and glean from my community here helps, including killing an animal that will feed us well.[/quote]

You didn't even know it was edible untiul last night!

Round here there are various people with skills in slaughtering and butchering. They go round and do everyones sheep, pigs etc.

You've already said you can't get near the ram anyway. You're going to need the help of someone - why not make it someone who knows the whole process and will do it humanely? Why?

[cooperlola]

I have deleted this post in view of the moderator's comments below.

[Russethouse]

Mod hat on

I know there are strong opinions here, please can all of you keep to the issues and be careful to post within the code of conduct, especially regarding being offensive and derogatory.

Thanks.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Chris Head"]

BB, a .22 if hollow pointed will spread on impact, the sheep will die instantly, there wont be any suffering. Also a hollowpoint will deccelerate rapidly, greatly reducing the round exiting and causing hazard. Full bore is too risky at that range BB.

[/quote]

You are wrong and you are also planning something illegal.

The holding of .22 hollowpoint ammunition requires both a special addition to your licence and approval from the police, which it's doubtful you would get no matter what the reason. Wadcutters are allowed but only for target shooting and they, of course do not have the impact of a hollow point. My fullbore comment does make sense providing the correct load was used, I reload all my .38 ammunition and you can both vary the amount and type of powder used and obtain, legally many types of bullet head,

For goodness sake, stop this stupidity and book a slot at the abbatoir.

 

 

[Chris Head]

No I'd no idea that mutton that was three, four or years older was edible, I've never eaten it in the UK.

The animal won't be transported or stressed, just put into an enclosure he's familiar with, then bang, lights out, he'll know nothing about it. That's fair to him and it's honest to me.

Cooperola, cruel I'm not, even in the slightest, cruel is transporting the creature and really stressing it out..... thoughtless.... I'm not even vaguely thoughtless, I've expended a great deal of thought over the subject, I was expecting insults, that's cool but the adjectives you chose weren't appropriate. Have another go. Your truth doesn't offend me in the slightest, emotional stabs aren't effective.

Jonz, appreciate your honesty mate, I'm not looking for browny points though, the subject is about real life,  perhaps it's not comfortable for some.

I know the people who actually understand the process are keeping their heads low at the mo, understandably. Does anyone actually have the capability of working out the thought trains behind my decision?

Jay Jay, I've got animals left right and centre who are all treated beautifully, including two lambs who have been bottle fed for the last three weeks, yes I care about my animals.

So who's against me felling a three hundred year old Oak in the new year?

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="Chris Head"]

So who's against me felling a three hundred year old Oak in the new year?

[/quote]

Depends why Chris?

[Pads]

So he can carve fence post out of it naturally. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it must be an ugly world for some people[:(]

[cooperlola]

Nowhere have I ever suggested that you should transport the poor thing anyway.  Just get an expert (pay a vet/slaughterman - there's a thought) to come to you and use a humane killer in the animal's normal environment.  I can't help thinking this is more about euros than anything but I'm a cynic.  I have worked with animals (including those kept for food) - indeed made a good living out of it - for years so perhaps you would make room for the possibility that there are others on here, as well as your good self, who know what they are talking about.

[Christine Animal]

There are a lot of things that go on on farms, the way animals are kept and killed.  But that does not make them the right way to do things and be copied, just because they unfortunately exist.