DIY or GALMI?

[Russethouse]

FWIW I was telling our project manager about this scenario today - their comment was that they would want a structural engineer to actually see it (not just a quick run through on the phone) before touching it.....

I agree Sweets, sometimes its not worth it.....

[Chancer]

Lucky the mill stones are not in the UK.

The little man would not touch it cos his insurers preclude him from working above one metre, and I doubt that many peoples pockets would even run to financing the risk assessments and feasibility studies of a bigger concern.

I remember my UK insurers knee jerk reaction after the Windsor Castle fire, they woud no longer permit me to use a gas pencil soldering iron unless I paid someone to stand on fire watch with an extinguisher, I am not talking about plumbing but small electronic printed circuit boards, the soldering iron gave out less heat than a cigarette lighter, in fact it was recharged from a lighter refill cylinder.

[Russethouse]

I'm at the end of a small building project and today finally got the quote for two glass shelves approx 24 inches x 12 inches to go in an alcove ( A chimney breast that has had the opening extended upward ) a finishing touch.

6mm toughened safety glass - the first quote to involve the supply of brackets and fitting :

£278 !!!! [8-)]

[mint]

I understand, RH.....you need those expensive shelves to display your collection of even more expensive Quimper ware, don't you?[;-)]

[pachapapa]

My initial experience in assessing timber support was as an underground production official on the Witwatersrand starting in 1958. The recovery of mine workings after damage through earth tremors and earthquakes has given me a good eye for wood.

I was fortunate to encounter a nice rural house in france with the main support timbers broken for the roof; potential UK buyers had been reluctant to purchase a building requiring according to structural engineer advice a complete rebuild of the whole roof.

I purchased the property of course after a little bargaining getting change from £ 5,000 including all notarial fees; the resolution of the structural problem with the roof cost me a couple of french acrow type props, some breeze blocks, some reinforcing steel; in total maybe € 80. Job completed in 3 days.

The props get borrowed now and again to do windows and doors.[:)]

Thanks to DIY I have no mortgage and house that represents maybe 5-10 % of my net equity.[:D]

[powerdesal]

[quote user="NickP"]

powerdesal wrote:  I don't particularly care for heights, so I took up sky diving and climbing tall structures. I am not that good a swimmer so I took up scuba diving, it does work (after a fashion). the motto ''Knowledge dispels fear'' ( No 1 P.T.S) is true.

That does not imply taking uncalculated, stupid risks but ......life without some risk has got to be pretty boring. Some will disagree no doubt.

 

So absolutely true, but no one is saying never take a risk, what we are saying is never take unnecessary risks. In fact you say this yourself(above). In the original posting the chap jehe, asked a question about a task he faced in his house and as the answers evolved it became quite obvious, well it did to me, that the guy was not confident of doing the job himself. So I and others who had given him advice how to attempt the job said, if you are in doubt don't do it. Its not worth hurting yourself. Lack of confidence is so often the path to failure, and in these circumstances when a lot of unknowns are involved people have accidents. I don't have any problems with people doing exactly what they want to do in any way they want, ( as long as they don't endanger me and mine) but all I say is don't attempt something that is dangerous when there is a safe way to do it. I guess powedesal in your book that probably makes me boring, so be it, I'm boring [:D]

[/quote]

NickP,

You have misinterpreted my meaning, perhaps I did not explain exactly what I meant. I do not, and never have, advocated doing anything in a dangerous way when there is a safe way to do it. I work in a dangerous industry, lack of consideration of the dangers and the potential results would mean, at the very least, a lack of job and possibly loss of life (mine or others or both). Its the definition of 'safe way' that each individual has to arrive at, my 'safe way' may not be yours or vice-versa.

When I mentioned 'boring' I was not saying a person or persons who dont take risks are boring, I was referring to life in general having some level of risk.

I fully agree 100% with never taking unnecessary risks, risk assessment is the name of the game surely, we all assess risks on a daily basis, we may not do it consciously but we certainly do it. Even the simple act of crossing a road involves an 'unconscious' risk assessment. We assess risks based on our level of knowledge, the knowledge of methods available, knowledge of potential problems, knowledge of the consequences of any failure. Our decisions stem from that sum of knowledge.

Those of us who move overseas are, in the eyes of some people, taking a risk. Many people would not do it because its too risky (in their eyes), are they cowards, are they too risk-averse or are they being sensible? Its back to risk definition again and acceptance that life has risks, which must be accepted to get the required rewards.

Going back to the original moving millstones situation, based on the very limited information supplied by the OP and with a resulting 'mental picture' of the arrangement I am personnally confident that I probably could and would move them myself. However, the usual caveats apply dont they, if in doubt take specialist advice.

 

[pachapapa]

Quote from above: if in doubt take specialist advice.

The selection of the specialist by somebody not experienced in the selection of specialists may well place the selector in a quandary.

Take for example the ubiquitous "structural engineer".  An individual well versed in calcs on static structures but probably lost in a dynamic situation.

The only time I can remember ever using structural engineers was in a rush construction job for copper mine treatment plant in the Atacama desert.

The engineering and construction drawing was done on the hoof as equipment was sourced in Brazil, USA and Europe; however it must be noted that structures are analysed more stringently in Chile and there is no shortage of experienced personnel.

Often in construction and heavy engineering the ball is pushed to the limit under difficult conditions and experience can reduce or even anticipate danger.

Let me put that in common context.

The ferry from Piraeus to Aegina puts in at a small island, en route, there is no quay and the boat backs in to the shore where it is held by two steel hawsers from winches on the deck.

There was a bit of a swell and with the movement of the boat the noise from one of the hawsers told me it was in distress; I shouted that the rope was going to break and retreated for cover.

Almost immediately the rope broke and the boat swung round into the beach. The bystanders remained there and were lucky not to have been seriously injured.

[cooperlola]

You have a good point there.  I have a friend who is married to a QS.   He decided to put down timber flooring in his house.  He didn't do a bad job but he did run out of the stuff half way across the kitchen......

[Russethouse]

[quote user="sweet 17"]I understand, RH.....you need those expensive shelves to display your collection of even more expensive Quimper ware, don't you?[;-)][/quote]

Put it like this - I'd rather spend the money on the Quimper than overpriced shelves: a phone round of suitable glass merchants gave me a much more manageable price for toughened glass, which I tactfully relayed to the project manager - now we wait and see [Www]

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Let me put that in common context.

The ferry from Piraeus to Aegina puts in at a small island, en route, there is no quay and the boat backs in to the shore where it is held by two steel hawsers from winches on the deck.

There was a bit of a swell and with the movement of the boat the noise from one of the hawsers told me it was in distress; I shouted that the rope was going to break and retreated for cover.

Almost immediately the rope broke and the boat swung round into the beach. The bystanders remained there and were lucky not to have been seriously injured.

[/quote]

Golly gosh Mr P, the marine investigation chaps must have been very pleased to have you providing expert testimony into the hawser failure, due possibly to the failure of a self-tensioning winch perhaps ?

[geek]

 

[pachapapa]

Yes indeed my testimony was decisive in recovering damages by the Greek SPA for medical fees incurred at the vets for repair of the seagulls wing unfortunately struck by a snaking rope.

The technical expertise demonstrating two splices in a locked coil rope resulted in all Greek Shipping in the mediterreanean being summarily ordered into the nearest port for due dilligence checks.

Agroup of British Tourists threatening to mutiny due to the cancelling of their trip to Petra were restrained by the master-at-arms calling in reinforcements from other cruise ships in the eastern mediterreanean.

[Russethouse]

My late brother spent several weeks in a Cape Town hospital after being hit in the face by a rope  under tension on board ship.

[pachapapa]

Steel wire ropes are where technology gets pushed to the limit. The case of Ultra Deep Hoisting shafts on the west rand in South Africa which are over a mile deep is a good example.

The weight of the rope hanging in the shaft becomes itself a factor in the limits of engineering design. The possibility of reducing the linear weight component of the rope has important payback considerations. The principal manufacturers of steel winding rope in South Africa are Haggie Rand Ltd, much research and development is financed by them. Some idea of the complexity and interacting factors for deep winding ropes can be obtained by skimming through the Introduction and Conclusions of a relatively recent Paper. ( 390 pages dont get too engrossed [:)]

Cheers PPP MIMM ( Member Institution Mining and Metallurgy) Diploma in Mining Witwatersrand Technical College.

http://www.seile.com/bro_engl/composite_steel_wire_rope.pdf

[La Guerriere]

Exactly so. In the offshore industry it is not uncommon to have mooring systems for deep water that cannot be made from steel wire as it just too heavy for the water depths, and they have to use synthetics.

But going back to the basic question of GALMI. The other major problem in France is that GALMI tends to mean GALMI for a devis which takes some months, then signing for it and getting in the queue which may take years. For many of us DIY is the ONLY practical option, particularly if you are not there all the time ...