Kristallnacht

[Iceni]

Tonight will be the 72nd anniversary - but probably of interest to not many.

John

[Patf]

You are right to remind, John.

Something never to be forgotten, both  as a  symbol of extreme racism, and as a warning of what was to follow.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Patf"]You are right to remind, John.

Something never to be forgotten, both  as a  symbol of extreme racism, and as a warning of what was to follow.

[/quote]

John: yes indeed.

It is well to remember how politics and extremism so quickly turned to totalitarianism: and the endless human consequences of a populace turning a blind eye to what their political leaders were enacting in their name.

Patf: Jews are not a race: as my more vociferous Jewish friends would robustly and proudly tell you!

Indeed, whether they are from roots of: Ashkenazi · Sephardi · Mizrahi Romaniote · Italki · Yemenite African · Beta Israel · Bukharan ·

Georgian • German · Mountain · Chinese Indian · Khazars · Karaim • Krymchaks •Samaritans • Crypto-Jews, then most are Caucasian.

As are the huge numbers of gentiles who converted to the Jewish faith from Roman  times onwards.

 

[Thibault]

I think you will find, Gluestick, that the term "racism" has grown to cover any perceived/real differences between people, including religion and nationality - hence the use of the term to describe physical or verbal attacks between, say, the English and the Scots.  Another "confusion" these days is to refer to a mixed race person as "black" as in President Obama who has one white and one black parent.[:)]

[woolybanana]

Thibault, how right you are. I suspect that, without the safety valve of intergroup 'joshing', tensions are heightened.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Thibault"]I think you will find, Gluestick, that the term "racism" has grown to cover any perceived/real differences between people, including religion and nationality - hence the use of the term to describe physical or verbal attacks between, say, the English and the Scots.  Another "confusion" these days is to refer to a mixed race person as "black" as in President Obama who has one white and one black parent.[:)][/quote]

Words are abused constantly: and invented: mainly by those who have very poor language skills: or a political agenda.

As an example (And common amongst the quasi-literate young: and media, sadly) "I texted him".

I'd love you to include the following statement in conversation with a particularly proud Jewish friend of mine " The Jewish Race............".

The point, very much.

Compassion and trying "To be kind", can all too often be objectionable and even insulting.

Hitler et al's dreadful attack on Jews was ethnic and religious: since many of the Jews persecuted and  murdered was as German as anyone: more so than  Hitler, since he was Austrian.

[Quillan]

In answer to Gluesticks comment and to explain a bit more. The Jews were originally Israelites, a small tribe of a particular race of people who's leader was Abraham. This is therefore a contentious point amongst some Jews as there may have been other tribes (in my opinion quite possible) of the same race in that part of the world at that time. Your view depends which type of Jewish group you belong to be it Secular Humanistic, Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative or Orthodox as to if it is a race or not. One thing that is common amongst all these groups is the comment by Deuteronomy (7:7) who states, "It is not because you are numerous that God chose you, indeed you are the smallest of people.".

Many people have become Jewish over 2000 plus years and it has obviously spread and people from other 'races' have become Jewish thus diluting the original DNA but it is still traceable and it is estimated that some 20% of the worlds Jewish population are descended from Abraham's original tribe.

The Jewish faith teaches us that we are all, thats Jews and none Jews, created "b'tzelem Elohim" (which means "in the image of God") and therefore we are all equal be you Jewish or not and likewise that we should respect everyone. Jews are monotheistic, just like Muslims in that there is but one God and only one. Perhaps other religious groups could learn to be more tolerant, like the Jews, to others which in hindsight may have lead to their persecution over the centuries but thats what they believe.

[Sunday Driver]

According to an article published in the Jewish Virtual Library, the German RuSHA (Main Race and Resettlement Office) was a central organization tasked with the implementation of racial programs of the Third Reich which included, amongst other things, "the persecution and extermination of Jews throughout Germany and German-occupied Europe".

The Germans clearly regarded the existence of the Jews as a racial issue and started killing them so rather than debating semantics, let's just remember......

 

[Catalpa]

Well said, SD.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

According to an article published in the Jewish Virtual Library, the German RuSHA (Main Race and Resettlement Office) was a central organization tasked with the implementation of racial programs of the Third Reich which included, amongst other things, "the persecution and extermination of Jews throughout Germany and German-occupied Europe".

The Germans clearly regarded the existence of the Jews as a racial issue and started killing them so rather than debating semantics, let's just remember......

 

[/quote]

The Germans may have been semantically inaccurate but presumably looked for an expression to adequately cover their quest for identification.

Not it would seem a matter of faith as is the case with Christianity and Islam, not even strictly falling cleanly under the taxonomy of "race".

Perhaps easier to start with a home grown definition and then develop it from there.

Every child born of a Jewish mother is, willy nilly, Jewish, a member of the Jewish community. There are black Jews and white Jews, Orthodox and Reform, Hassidic and even secular and agnostic Jews. There are good Jews and bad Jews, indeed, all types of Jews; all sharing a common history, peoplehood, and even destiny. And so, when a person is born into this Jewish community, even if he strays from it, he remains a member of that group. Being Jewish, therefore, is not so much accepting a faith system as is true with Christians, but being part of a covenanted community and peoplehood that one enters into at birth.

Ah, I see NOT a race but a "peoplehood".

EDIT 12:46 Addition of an a "o" in taxonomy; apologies for original typo.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Quillan"]Jews are monotheistic, just like Muslims in that there is but one God and only one. Perhaps other religious groups could learn to be more tolerant, like the Jews, to others which in hindsight may have lead to their persecution over the centuries but thats what they believe.[/quote]

You seemed to forget Christianity, Q.

Judaeism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic faiths.

As well as being, as you say, Monotheistic.

 

[Quillan]

Unfortunately the Jewish Virtual Library is also somewhat of a political organisation founded and funded primarily in the US from where it is run. One should look at its 'home' page and then at its directors. The main aim is to ensure a deep bond stays between the US and Israel because the US is their main protector in the middle east. I don't have any feeling about them either way but you should be aware of what you are looking at and why, I should also point out that much of the information is perfectly well researched and very genuine its just the political overtones I don't like.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Quillan"]Unfortunately the Jewish Virtual Library is also somewhat of a political organisation founded and funded primarily in the US from where it is run. One should look at its 'home' page and then at its directors. The main aim is to ensure a deep bond stays between the US and Israel because the US is their main protector in the middle east. I don't have any feeling about them either way but you should be aware of what you are looking at and why, I should also point out that much of the information is perfectly well researched and very genuine its just the political overtones I don't like.[/quote]

By that I assume you are neither a sponsor or on the mailing list of the A.I.C.E.[6]

[Patf]

"Racial purity" was one of the Nazi's obsessions. So as well as getting rid of groups that could be identified as impure races, they also had a breeding programme (lebensborn). Planning to build up a master race of aryans.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

According to an article published in the Jewish Virtual Library, the German RuSHA (Main Race and Resettlement Office) was a central organization tasked with the implementation of racial programs of the Third Reich which included, amongst other things, "the persecution and extermination of Jews throughout Germany and German-occupied Europe".

The Germans clearly regarded the existence of the Jews as a racial issue and started killing them so rather than debating semantics, let's just remember......

 

[/quote]

The RuSHA was also an advisory and executive office for all questions

of racial selection. Racial examinations were performed by Rasse und Siedlungs (RUS) leaders or their racial examiners (German: Eignungspruefer) in connection with:

• Cases where sexual intercourse had occurred between Eastern European POWs or workers and Germans
• Children born to Eastern European workers
• Classification of people of German descent
• Selection of enemy nationals, particularly Poles and Slovakians, for slave labour and Germanization
• Kidnapping of children suitable for Germanization
• Population transfers
• The persecution and liquidation of Jews

Source:

A wider and more accurate description of Nazi policy towards establishment of Aryan "Purity" and the groups targeted may be found here.

As will be seen included for special treatment were homosexuals, the disabled, gypsies, Balts, Slavs and various other major ethnic groups.

Races?

Here:

My  own concern is the code of law: already, we have watched and reviewed (those of us with concern) how UK law has been twisted and distorted to suit political objectives and expediency. Same with EU law.

If we are not rather careful it will become much worse.

Just a few years back, I was assisting a solicitor, who was fighting to compel information to be released in the cause of justice, who was then cautioned he was to be charged with " Incitement of Homophobic Race Crime": the matter related to multiple homosexual rape and abuse.

Problem for the police was such an offense was not as yet then even on the statute books!

Didn't stop the police from marching in wearing their big boots: quite obviously, galvanised from above.

And perhaps worse, releasing a sneak tip to the media: which did the man's professional reputation not much good.

If we are not rather careful, motorists will be charged with "Driveism"............................

A nice catch all saving the police authority from having to actually prove any substantive and specific offence.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Quillan"]

I. Perhaps other religious groups could learn to be more tolerant, like the Jews,

[/quote]

You must be joking!