Scuba diving

[NuBeginnings]

If any one is thinking about learning to dive or wants some general information on diving feel free to PM me.Life before moving to France and opening a boot camp. I worked in the dive industry teaching diving and filming cool marine life.

Gives you an example of the kind of stuff I used to shoot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxd8fDBQjqk

[Chancer]

I am a recreational diver and I joined a local dive club here in France, despite having more logged dives than all but the niveau 5 monitor and there  existing a passerelle to niveau 3 I have had to patiently start again as a novice, 15 months on and  they will now allow me to dive to 6 metres autonome, - wit woo!! [:-))].

They are completely ignorant and frighetened of anything in the diving world outside of French speaking countries, we went to Nemo33 in Brussels and they freaked out because I hadnt passed my niveau 1 with them at that point, refused to have me on the palanquer which was fine by me, I said I woud dive autonome, they said that Nemo would only accept a French diving qualification and that like them they would have no idea what my SSI certificate was.

I had great pleasure in showing them that Nemo33 is actually an SSI dive centre and school [:D] Nobody had ever noticed it because the poster was in English.

I will shortly be changing clubs because despite us having a brand spanking new €48000 Zodiac half paid for by the Mairie they will only use it twice per year and then I have to travel to Cassis or Corse to dive with them [:(]

[NuBeginnings]

I know where you are coming from, early 90's I opened my own dive centre in Spain. The rules and regulations and hoops I had to jump through were incredible. I had to go and be tested by a 2* CMAS instructor that I could dive. given that I was the equivalent to a 3* instructor it was laughable. The best thing was I came back after the dive with 75 bar more than the guy testing me :-)

[pachapapa]

I can only assume that your professional vocational qualification did not fall within the rules of the European Union.

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/education_training_youth/vocational_training/c11065_en.htm

[NuBeginnings]

Working in Spain was some 18 years ago, much has changed since then. But the qualification should have been recognised but small minded officials liked to make things harder than they needed to be. Some times it is easier to jump threw a small hoop than argue with them.

The same could also be said with diving organisations in the U.K in the early 80's in the U.K

Prior to that date most divers were trained by the BSAC or an offshoot. Clubs were very snotty back then, if you did not train with the particular club then you were not good enough and could not dive with them. Gladly that is no longer the case.

[Pierre ZFP]

So, as I understood it, you can get your diver qualifications through BSAC or PADI and they were broadly similar.

Is there any advantage of having one rather than the other?  or are they equally recognised if I turned up at a dive shop on holidays somewhere?

I am only talking about sports diver level, not instructor or anything like that.

[Chancer]

Having dived in some very far flung corners of the world I can confirm that both Padi and SSI are universally recognised, an FFESM or BSAC card may be foreign to them but as a commercial organisation they will usually take the time to identify and recognise it.

A CMAS international brevet will be recognised world wide with its etoile system of diver rating.

The only advantage that I can see having FFESM certification is the monopoly they enjoy in French territories, no-one else can work as an instructor in isle de reunion and they earn big money per dive.

[Araucaria]

The OH and I both took up scuba diving rather late in life (as pensioners) but we learnt in the Lakshadweep Islands. For some reason that I can't recall the qualification we got was the CMAS one. Do I understand that this is more acceptable world-wide than BSAC? Because I had thought that BSAC was pretty rigorous (unlike PADI) - though my knowledge of the other qualifications is very secondhand.

Incidentally if anyone fancies a very different diving experience, I can really recommend the Lakshadweep Islands (part of India, formerly known as the Lacadive Islands, and the main dive base there is called, of course, Lacadives - www.lacadives.com).

[Chancer]

I made contact with a club in the UK to be able to do some diving in the summer as my dive club here ends its year in June and doesnt recommence until the rentrée, you could not make up these things if you tried could you!!!!

It used to be a BSAC club but now is independant and does have CMAS affiliation which is good for me, whether or not BSAC does I am not sure, my PADI and SSI certificates dont have any CMAS ratings on them, they are 12 and 19 years old though perhaps newer ones do.

What I do know is that both PADI and SSI are recognised all over even in very remote places, the reason being that being commercial organisations they spread much quicker than cosy nationalistic cartels.

[NuBeginnings]

Both BSAC and PADI are on par for their beginner course structor. BSAC had to change their course out line to bring them selves in to the main stream market.In the past BSAC's manuals and teaching techniques were out of date. Gladly as I am with both organisation BSAC is now a world class training organisation.

Often people with little or no knowledge would put down PADI, which is the largest diver training organisation in the world.

The only fault with any instructional system be it CMAS BSAC PADI etc are the instructors. For the most part they are excellent. But there are a few instructors in all organisations that try to cut corners to save cost and time. Diving is not a place to cut corners.

Thinking of learning to dive, this is my advise.

Best training organisations

1. PADI ( As more widely recognised )

2. BSAC great club diving especially in the U.K

3. SSI NAUi CMAS

How to pick your instructor, ask how long they have been teaching ask to see there Instructor certification as this has the date on it that they became a member. Ask how many courses they have taught.Make sure the instructor has ample teaching experience for the level of course you are interested in.

Instructor ratings,

1 Best instructor ratings in this order,

PADI Course Director (Teaches Instructors)

Master Instructor (Plenty of experience )

IDC Staff Instructor A good bet

MSDT Instructor with some experience

OW Instructor Fresh instructor

BSAC NATIONAL INSTRUCTOR (Teaches Instructors)

ADVANCED INSTRUCTOR (Plenty of experience )

OPEN WATER INSTRUCTOR Fresh instructor

The list could go on for the other organisations but these are the main two.

Hope that helps

[Pierre ZFP]

Thank you for that clear explaination.

Very enlightening to a Noob like me

[Théière]

P.A.D.I.

Put another dollar in!

Fantastic training, just like a US infomercial on the shopping channel [Www] remember to have your credit card ready for tomorrows course, diving to 3 metres and using a surface marker buoy [:D]

[Chancer]

And thanks from me, I was judging BSAC from my knowledge of close to 30 years ago when you were expected to sit in a classroom for at least a year before even seeing a swimming pool.

What you posted about how and why they changed is a vivid illustration of the great difference between France and the UK.

At my club when the word PADI or any organisation other than FFESM/CMAS  is mentioned the name is spoken with the venom usually reserved for British food. 

They use PADI always as a put down to me, I smile politely and explain that I was not PADI but SSI and I am now FFESM so why are they giving me a hard time? Its usauuly when I have bought dive equipment from E-bay UK at a fraction of what they pay, at a fosse recently the niveau 5 monitor completely lost his rag with me, screaming that my kit was hor normes and could not be calmed down. When I discussed it another time with him when he was calm he could not cite any normes that I could look up and just got aggresive again when i pointed out that my hors normes kit was French made..

I know what is behind it, at the beginning of the year when we recruit, and yes people do have to wait up to a whole year to join, when they are told the price and how many years to gain the equivalent of the PADI open water diver certification many of the young say forget it, for less money than that I can go to Egypt for 7 days all in and get qualified diving on a reef not a swimming pool.

As I said an example of where other countries eventually adapt to a changing world.

[NuBeginnings]

What about BSAC Better Send Another Cheque

The training system PADI have developed is a commercial system to teach people to dive. The materials and system are world class hence the reason they are market leaders in teaching people to dive. Divers are made in the water, not 6 months in a class room then we will let you look at the pool. Again any instructional system is only as good as the person teaching it.

[Chancer]

I didnt know there was one for BSAC, being naive and knowing it was them that coined the phrase PADI Put Another Dollar In, I didnt think they were driven by money, my French club isnt but nonetheless it costs far more to get qualified with them than to go to do an all inclusive flights/hotel/dive deal in Egypt, probably Thailand as well. not to mention a couple of years quicker.

Do you have an acronym for FFESM?  Preferably in French as only one or two speak any English and not surprisingly they are the more enlightened ones that I dont wish to wind it in to.

[Théière]

[quote user="NuBeginnings"]What about BSAC Better Send Another Cheque The training system PADI have developed is a commercial system to teach people to dive. The materials and system are world class hence the reason they are market leaders in teaching people to dive. Divers are made in the water, not 6 months in a class room then we will let you look at the pool. Again any instructional system is only as good as the person teaching it.[/quote]

I was obviously spoiled and had the benefit of an excellent instructor, we were in the pool from week two alternating from class room one week to pool sessions another (in a private girls school too [:)][:)][:)])

Used to sit through the training sessions with the PADI divers in Thailand and whilst instructive boy do they go over and over it and over it again. The thing that struck me as dumb was no standard system throughout for hand signals. Has that changed?

[NuBeginnings]

Not sure when you learnt to dive but in the last 20 years the basic signals have not changed. Most of the important signals used are standardised.

Here is a link for most of the signals you would ever need.

http://www.ukdivers.net/comms/signals.htm

An open water diver course should take 4/5 full days but that is dependent on the students learning ability.

[Théière]

[quote user="NuBeginnings"]Not sure when you learnt to dive but in the last 20 years the basic signals have not changed.[/quote]

21 years ago [;-)] haven't dived for 15 years or so not really fair for me to comment.

[Chancer]

They will have a feature on ice diving on Thalassa this Friday night, a must watch program in any case.