Frederick Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I think this has opened a can of worms again. Keeping money in the family by arranged marriage to cousins resulting in the birth of children with defects . A brave man has spoken out ! http://the-salfordian.com/tag/birth-defects/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 There was a television documentary about this a few months ago.The article from which you quote (and other articles on the same page) do seem to be just a teeny bit anti non white, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I trust the Queen has been shown this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Oh dear. Scaremongering. There is little that is problematic about cousin marriage, as the following extract from Wikipedia (original appropriately referenced) shows."In April 2002, the Journal of Genetic Counseling released a report which estimated the average risk of birth defects in a child born of first cousins at 1.7–2.8% over an average base risk for non-cousin couples of 3%, or about the same as that of any woman over age 40. In terms of mortality, a 1994 study found a mean excess pre-reproductive mortality rate of 4.4%, While another study published in 2009 suggests the rate may be closer to 3.5%. Put differently, first-cousin marriage entails a similar increased risk of birth defects and mortality as a woman faces when she gives birth at age 41 rather than at 30."Queen Victoria married her first cousin, and Charles Darwin and Albert Einstein married their cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Several of my ancestors did it. Probably explains quite a lot really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I have friends who are cousins who are married and they are very white! And their kids are fine and they didn't marry cousins.I suppose it would be bad if done over and over again, and in my family it would be a bad thing as there is a nasty gene that I wouldn't want my grandchildren to get, if ever I get any grand children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I dislike press articles which try to stir up racial tensions with lines such as 'There is of course no shock in seeing Muslims denying medical facts because Muslims know everything.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Coeur de Lion Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 What does being a muslim have to do with race anyway?Is marriage to first cousins still legal in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 There doesn't seem to be a problem with the occasional first cousin marriage. In some communities though where cousin marriage is routine in generation after generation this produces cousins who are more closely related than ordinary first cousins are. It causes untold misery to the mothers of the children who produce child after child with defects. To deny that there is a problem is simply not facing the facts. Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 [quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]Is marriage to first cousins still legal in the UK?[/quote]Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossy67 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I don't see anything wrong wit it, like I done marrieyd my cusin.I'd like you to meet my wife and sister lol.[IMG]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a285/CuteBandGeek/Halloween%202006/Halloween010.jpg[/IMG][:)] Where I came from you would get beaten up if you ventured into a neighbouring village. Wonder what that did for the gene pool? Luckily I don't originate from there[:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 This subject was discussed on radio 4 this morning . An MP stated she sees increasing numbers of mothers who come to her with children with birth defects .. It seems they tell her it is the fault of western medicine .a bad doctor or the will of god . There are many cultures black and white who marry close family members so its not a colour / race issue . In this day of genetic screening which will give mothers information of the risk of having a child born with a disability the problem needs to be faced up to. Or what's the point of having genetic screening . A large section of the community may not like it and think it an intrusion into their lives to talk about this But the same community produces many good doctors who perhaps should come out and speak more about the risks involved with marriage to close family members Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 It's such a pity that the link in the original post was to a report that was written in such a racist way. That said, there is a real problem here. It should disappear in time as more of the powerful matriarchal grandmothers don't have it as their dearest wish that their grandchildren should all marry each other.As to Frederick's pont about UK trained doctors, there is at least one of them who, recognising the strong cultural pressures, encourages people to marry more distant cousins.This isn't a huge problem except to the mothers who are sometimes blamed for producing the children and to the children themselves. It's a very good example of how racism and anti-racism prevent the discussion of the real facts.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The report in the salford blog was heavily edited to fit in with its agenda. The original report did also mention "inbreeding" in N Ireland and the Scottish Isles and within Royal families, the latter reference was naturally omitted when the Daily Mail ran the story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I've been looking for a more reliable reort of what Steve JOnes said - the actual text is possible. Did any find it ?Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Is this it ? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/8544359/Hay-Festival-2011-Professor-risks-political-storm-over-Muslim-inbreeding.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Not really RH. I was hoping for something less edited. I don't suppose it exists on the web.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 One of my guests bought this subject up in conversation over dinner last night and as somebody else pointed out the press are a bit late with this as it's been going on for centuries so the only conclusion you could make was that somebody was out to stir up trouble yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 [quote user="Hoddy"]Not really RH. I was hoping for something less edited. I don't suppose it exists on the web.Hoddy[/quote]it is available as a podcast from last yearhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/science/audio/2010/oct/11/science-weekly-podcast-nobel-prizes-incest-brian-cox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Different chap - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I'm afraid I can't get it to play.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 "Steve Jones is presenting the first of UCL's lunch hour lectures this year, 'Incest and Folk-dancing: why sex survives. "It is on the pod cast at around 32 minutes and presumably was the basis of his lecture of the same title at Hay festival , though Muslim references weren't included in the podcast. They might be though in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-qZmgnSn6Y broadcast but at 45 minutes, I haven't the time to listen to it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 It is not racism to point out that there is a problem that affects one specific community more than another. After all, the Afro-Caribbean community has specific health issues as do the Jews, and the Indian community seems to have problems too.Those in the Pakistani community who are protesting are concerned to ensure that traditional ways are maintained and to keep control of the community, for their own purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Perhaps the Pakistani community are upset at the way in which it has been reported?In the 45 minute you tube clip,which I have now listened too, about 1 minute refers to Pakistani muslims in Bradford, yet this section has made the news all over the internet.The facts and figures that the prof reported do highlight that this is a worrying issue for Bradford Pakistani community, but the way it has been reported on blogs and the daily mail to demonise muslims yet again, no wonder they become a little bristly. An important subject that needed better handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Exactly so. That is why I wanted to be able to read or hear the original.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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