Not DSK and not "real life"....

[mint]

I didn't want to write irrelevant stuff on the DSK thread and this one is just for those who like to ponder on "moral" questions on hot, long summer evenings.

When I was young and living in the tropics, I used to love Somerset Maugham and felt very sophisticated reading him as the moral of his stories was never what I was taught was "right and proper".

I always see parallels between Maugham and a lot of de Maupassant and it would not surprise you to know that Maugham was a great admirer of de Maupassant.

Recently, I picked up a volume of Maugham's short stories at our local church fete and one of the stories has reminded me of some of the issues surrounding the DSK affair.

Sorry to be so longwinded in my introduction but here is the story:

It is set in WWII in the French countryside.  A German soldier raped the educated and professional (teacher) daughter of French peasants.  He was young, good-looking and slightly drunk at the time of the attack.

Some months later, he went back to the farm, bearing gifts of food: cheese and meat.  The mother, after some initial hesitation, accepted the gifts because of the shortage of food.

The soldier went back over a period of months, each time, trying to win over the girl and in hope of forgiveness.  After several visits, both parents had knuckled under, the mother accepting food and the father glad of the tobacco.  The girl, however, continued to be hostile and, as much as possible, refused to benefit from any of the gifts.

After several visits, the soldier found himself curiously drawn to the girl (she was described as "not beautiful") and wished to break down her resistance.  Annette, such is the girl's name, one day took the soldier aside and told him categorically that she hated him and, moreover, that she had a fiancé in a German prison camp.  She showed the German her swollen, pregnant belly.

He was overwhelmed, unexpectedly, and began to feel tenderness and love for the girl and the unborn child.  He ingratiated himself with the parents:  brought ever more generous gifts, told them he wanted to marry the girl, that he himself belonged to a farming family and would have money for machinery and the physical strength and determination to improve their farm.  Not only that, as the French couple's own son had been killed in the war, he undertook to live in France and work on their farm.  He hoped that the parents would influence the daughter.

From the French parents' viewpoint, this would seem to be a solution to many of their problems.  The young German was of their "type", coming from farming stock, he had learnt to speak French, he was willing to marry their daughter, be a father to her illegitimate child, revive their farm, keep them in old age....what price collaboration, commensense?  What had happened could not be undone so what was the best way to proceed and was there any sense in denying the advantages of the match?  The newspapers were full of an imminent German victory and the French would either have to accept the norms of their victors or starve in their own homes.

The soldier had one last attempt, before being posted elsewhere, to reason with the girl.  In the meantime, her own fiancé had died in the German camp.  She considered briefly how it might be if she accepted his proposal.  Her greatest fear was contempt from her own friends and acquaintances who might not believe that she was raped but that she had consented to sex with the enemy.  In many ways, the fact that he seemed a decent, honest person who had expressed love for her and was willing to do all he could to make amends, was attractive.

This being a Somerset Maugham story, she only fleetingly considered life with her rapist.  When the child was born and the soldier came to visit at the farm, she took the baby (incidentally the spitting image of his father with blonde hair and blue eyes) to the nearby stream and drowned him (it was a boy).

As I said, not real life but I saw many issues with far-reaching echoes of the DSK news story.  Excuse me if you think me fanciful but, you know me, I like to ponder on meanings and attempt to draw conclusions quite a lot and I also like to know the thoughts of others.

 

[idun]

Posting this was like opening a can of worms, pandoras box, or just idun's weird thoughts that have arrived at a hundred miles an hour. So the fourth time I am trying to say something that makes any sense to other than me.

Well many of the best stories are based on the truth and life, as was this.

Children were expected to be obedient, in fact I would say they were until quite recently ie my generation, as even I was expected to be (not that I was), after all, I knew so many who were made to have shot gun weddings. And I really can't remember any of them lasting.

And even if children are not obediant these days, then it would seem that the advice of a parent could well colour decisions and for whose benefit, the parents? but maybe not their child's. So maybe things have not changed so much, as you suggest.

And this is really taking me off in so many different directions, so I'll stop now.

 

[pachapapa]

I hate the two Ms about equally and if marooned on a deserted island with their works i would sit under the tallest coco nut palm.

Although in the early stages of the phony war fraternisation was not actively suppressed by the germans. In effect the fraternisation was largely confined to the "maisons closes" that popped up like mushrooms in tune with french female sentiments of amoral immorality.

After the invasion of north africa things became stricter and besotted aryans would quickly be transferred to the eastern front to quench their misdirected ardor.

I know nothing of Somerset but get the impression that he would not have been out of place as a house guest at Oswald's; the story seems to purposely extol the virtues of the aryan visitors in contrast to the symbolic representation of the mother's act.

There was a similar story last winter in the ongoing France Television series on a french village during the second world war; in that story the german was duely transferred to the eastern front and the pregnant girl married the village school master. The school master was aware of the situation and there was no rape or such like; just a couple in love.

The series is regarded as being historically accurate with french historians advising and post programme interviews with people who experienced the period.

A series to be bookmarked for the autumn; the previous programmes are available in video.

[woolybanana]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Although in the early stages of the phony war fraternisation was not actively suppressed by the germans. In effect the fraternisation was largely confined to the "maisons closes" that popped up like mushrooms in tune with french female sentiments of amoral immorality.

After the invasion of north africa things became stricter and besotted aryans would quickly be transferred to the eastern front to quench their misdirected ardor.

The series is regarded as being historically accurate with french historians advising and post programme interviews with people who experienced the period.

[/quote]

Horizontal fraternization was much more common than you suggest, PPP. French women were lonely and frustrated with their men in POW camps and their biological clocks wetre ticking. And they often had clean, polite young men billetted in their homes, who paid them court and eventually nature took its way.

That these women were judged so harshly, particularly after the war is understandable too. The children of these liaisons are only now able to admit to their parentage, and that with difficulty as they can still be singled out for nastiness.

[woolybanana]

There were an estimated 200,000 enfants maudits.

[mint]

Yes, Pacha, I did watch many of the programmes of le Village Français.

I am indeed sorry that you do not like Maugham or de Maupassant.  Remember, I was a schoolgirl in a French (haha) convent and their works to me seemed irredeemably romantic and "daring"......oh, the spirit and simplicity of youthful enthusiasms!

Now, as an adult, I think of a man of power "having his way" with a woman (eg DSK) and, usually, being able to walk away with little consequence to themselves.  Of course, the irony of the story is that the German (imagine DSK!!!, no I don't think so) then genuinely fell in love with the victim but she was able to extract the "ultimate" revenge.

I say "ultimate" because it was clear to me that the killing of the baby was, if anything, even more traumatic for her than it was for him.  She did say in the story that she had to do it straightaway because, otherwise, she would be unable to perform the deed.

As for personal bravery, who knows how each of us would react, say, under torture, or even if our ability to eat were called into question.

I have grave doubts about my own ability to be heroic, however that is defined.

[pachapapa]

... ability to be heroic...

Exchanges on a neighbouring thread would suggest to me that french women start with an almost insurmountable disadvantage.[6]

[Renaud]

In 1940 it looked for the French as though the Germans had won and the occupation was going to be a permanent fact of life.

Now with wonderful hindsight we think 'if only the French could have put their life on hold for five years'.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Renaud"]In 1940 it looked for the French as though the Germans had won and the occupation was going to be a permanent fact of life. Now with wonderful hindsight we think 'if only the French could have put their life on hold for five years'.[/quote]

So as I understand it on the "other thread" regarding the morality front they are still in a state of ON HOLD after 51 years.[I]

[mint]

OTOH, Pacha, if the girl is meant to represent "France", then she comes out as truly heroic.  In other words, it was only her body that was violated; she kept her principles and her spirit.

Me, I'm worried about any story involving a mother killing her own baby.  I am not sure that she had the right to kill the baby even though she said that the baby would always remind her of her shame.

[pachapapa]

Dont worry!

Since Simone Weil made that symbolic stance for french womanhood.

French womanhood has been stifling them in their thousands.

Veritable Auschwitz head count.

 

[mint]

Pacha, has the heat got to you or something?

Why are you being so cynical and provocative? 

Go relax, calm yourself down, have a glass or two of something nicely chilled and stop thinking about corridas![:D][:P] 

[pachapapa]

[:D]

[pachapapa]

Stop thinking about corridas.

Made me smile...now in good spirits again.

The 6th of july, the start of the festivities associated with the patron saint San Fermin.[:D]

http://www.sanfermin.com/index.php/es/sf11/5-julio

[Hoddy]

To get back to the original question and leaving aside any symbolism in the book, I wonder how one would feel towards a child that was born as a result of rape. My children were conceived in love and were welcomed with joy by both families. I don't know how I would have felt towards them had it been otherwise.

Hoddy

[pachapapa]

I think it is more important what the children think.

I have 4 children, all well over 21, in philosophical mode I once said something to the effect that I did not regret having had children.

The response was rather stronger than philosopical.

[mint]

I must say, Pacha, that the Spanish people really do know how to party!

I love the way the little children are dressed up and go on processions.  Mind you, I am not talking about corridas, just the fallas and so on for the Feast of St Joseph.  I am dead impressed as so little is known about St Joseph but it doesn't stop the Spanish celebrating in a big way!

Hoddy, that is a very serious question and I try to think of how I would feel if I thought I was a child born of rape but, it's too much in the stratosphere for me to even get a handle on it!