Blaming the poor

[Frederick]

[quote user="woolybanana"]The first generation is always exploited but their kids do better and so on.

The problem in UK and France is that people have been brainwashed into believing that they have the right to obtain something for nothing. The idea that taking benefits was somehow shameful may have had the merit that it made people wanna work and help themselves.[/quote]

There was work out there to be had then and still is today.....  I have not seen our window cleaner for over 9 months .. He may have  emigrated  for all I know .  It was £10 a time . I am not permitted to go up a ladder now on the instruction of senior management . There is a whole window cleaning round to be created again round here if some young person wanted to knock on doors and build up a customer base ..... In France where I am ......I am yet to see a window cleaner .

[woolybanana]

My friend's windows at her house in London are cleaned by a man from deepest Dorset who drives, up early Mondays, works all week, kipping in his van, the returns to the bosom of his family on Thursday or Friday evening. And good luck to him.

[woolybanana]

[quote user="NormanH"]People do want to work and help themselves, that is the whole point.
I don't know anybody who does first-hand and the only ones I read about are the fictitious 'my brother knows someone who' type peddled by the propaganda of  the Tory press to cover up the rapacious greed of those who hide their wealth offshore, and are now stealing from the poor, the disabled and the weak.

[/quote]

Many of the those who hide their wealth offshore do so to keep it from the rapacious greed of governments who are determined to throw it down the drain on their stupid projects. France is the classic example of a country which is bleeding dry the seed corn of its own future.

It is the SHAM poor, the SHAM disabled and the SHAM weak who are losing out, largely, Norman.

[Quillan]

[quote user="NormanH"]People do want to work and help themselves, that is the whole point.
I don't know anybody who does first-hand and the only ones I read about are the fictitious 'my brother knows someone who' type peddled by the propaganda of  the Tory press to cover up the rapacious greed of those who hide their wealth offshore, and are now stealing from the poor, the disabled and the weak.
[/quote]

So Norman although you clearly disapprove of the Tory press propaganda you are quite happy to go along with the socialist press propaganda, believing from what one reads in to your comments every word? I doubt it never dawned on you over all these years to read both and look for a common thread which might be somewhere towards the truth. This is school boy/girl type stuff that one is taught, look at all the press and draw your own conclusions. As is commonly said there is always two sides to every story, sometimes even three or four.

Your very first line draw my attention as I never knew of anyone so naive as to say such a thing. You have implied, in one line, that every single unemployed person wants a job, that is, if I might say so, absolute tosh. There is a small minority group of unemployed who have absolutely no intention of ever working. Those that pay tax in the UK feel it unfair that they should pay for them. There are those who do want to work but can't get work and they should of course be looked after as it is not their fault. The government (don't care what political leaning they have) should be looking very hard at incentive schemes to attract business to these areas so people can work.

I see your doing the typical socialist thing and knock the bankers by implying they don't pay tax on their bonuses etc. This shows a total lack of understanding of how bonuses are paid and how the UK tax system works.

Yes there are a few bankers at the very top, like the top one or two in each bank who may be able to get their bonus paid outside the UK where different tax laws are applied. This in reality is American banks operating in the UK. I have a family member who works for one of these very large banks and does get very large bonuses some of which is in the form of cash and shares plus pension entitlements totalling normally just under a million a year. To get this she works around 14 hours a day and normally Saturday mornings when there is no trading which enables her to catch up on her paperwork. The salary bonus is taxed at the going rate based on the tax band she is in but the bit she does not pay is NI. So basically nearly half her bonus goes to the taxman. Shares are given at a preferential rate, a couple of quid for a share that is valued at £20. If you pay any tax in the UK then when you sell the shares you can take the first £10,680 of profit without paying tax after which Capital Gains tax comes in to effect on the difference of what you effectively paid for them and what you sell them for which is currently 18% up to the value of £34,371 (2012/13) and 28% thereafter.

Just so you know how many bankers there are in the UK who MAY be able to put their salary and bonuses offshore there are 19 merchant banks and five commercial banging groups, that's around 50 (possibly 100 max) people in total

I suspect you will come back with the issue of pensions for these people as well. Again my close family member gets pension rights as part of her bonus for which she pays zero tax on. The reason she pays no tax is because they go in to her pension. I don't know how much up you are on pension law but basically you cannot get at your pension pot until you retire and only then can you get a lump sum from it which is a percentage depending on age, the rest goes to an annuity to pay your pension which of course you will be taxed on.

Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of these top 50 or so bankers being able to hide their money, they earn it in the UK therefore they should pay tax on it but then so should the likes of Starbuck's, Amazon, Ebay, Vodaphone etc but both the Tories and the socialists refuse point blank to fix this and the method of fixing it is very simple. You simply pass a law that says if you earn money in the UK or focus your business on people in the UK then you pay your tax on the salary or profit generated there. They won't do this because they know what will happen, it is called "the Dyson effect" but it would happen on a much larger scale.

If you want to know how the bonus schemes with shares work you can read the following HMRC document http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/hs287.pdf

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]

Alongside decayed roués with dubious means of subsistence and of dubious origin, alongside ruined and adventurous offshoots of the bourgeoisie, were vagabonds, discharged soldiers, discharged jailbirds, escaped galley slaves, swindlers, mountebanks, lazzaroni, pickpockets, tricksters, gamblers, maquereaux [pimps], brothel keepers, porters, literati, organ grinders, ragpickers, knife grinders, tinkers, beggars — in short, the whole indefinite, disintegrated mass, thrown hither and thither, which the French call la bohème

[/quote]

A pretty good description of the Brits who have been moving to Spain, and to a lesser extent, to France, in the last few years  [:D]

 

[YCCMB]

[quote user="woolybanana"]My friend's windows at her house in London are cleaned by a man from deepest Dorset who drives, up early Mondays, works all week, kipping in his van, the returns to the bosom of his family on Thursday or Friday evening. And good luck to him.[/quote]

I haven't been able to get a window cleaner for 20 years round here. Over the past 3 weeks, I've been fighting them off. I'm giving one a trial go on Friday. Can't tell you how pleased I am. Unless you've ever tried to clean the outside of a top-floor sash window on a 3-storey house, you won't share my excitement at this development. And my excitement is all the greater because I have vertigo and have already cracked one rib trying to keep my own windows shiny.

Norman...let's be fair. Not all the poor and unemployed are shiftless good-for-nothings. Not all the rich are barstewards. There are even some shiftless rich good-for-nothings and an enormous number of barstewards of varying economic means.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Quillan"]

 five commercial banging groups[/quote]

That's a whole can of worms you've opened right there, Quillan...[:D]

[Cendrillon]

. "In France where I am ......I am yet to see a window cleaner . "

Frederick, nearly all windows in France open inwards so there is not the same need for window cleaners.

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]People do want to work and help themselves, that is the whole point.
I don't know anybody who does first-hand and the only ones I read about are the fictitious 'my brother knows someone who' type peddled by the propaganda of  the Tory press to cover up the rapacious greed of those who hide their wealth offshore, and are now stealing from the poor, the disabled and the weak.

[/quote]

I just read this again, and I'm not sure what you were trying to say.

Do you mean you don't know anyone who wants to work?

[NormanH]

Your eagle eye again [:)]

It should have read doesn't

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]Your eagle eye again [:)]
[/quote]

It's all down to the comics I read[:D]

 

 

 

[Quillan]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Quillan"]

 five commercial banging groups[/quote]

That's a whole can of worms you've opened right there, Quillan...[:D]

[/quote]

Oops, that's the problem with spellcheckers and dyslectic fingers. [:(]

[Frederick]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]. "In France where I am ......I am yet to see a window cleaner . "

Frederick, nearly all windows in France open inwards so there is not the same need for window cleaners.

[/quote]

Cendrilllon........I am aware of this and we clean our own ... . But there are lots of frail OAP's I see in France in the village moving about with sticks who would not be safe on a box or chair to clean their own windows..   so they don't .

Some of the houses that front onto the pavements I see in France have windows as grey as the walls and doors from  passing  tractor traffic dust and dirt  And they stay like that for months . .   

[mint]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Quillan"]

 five commercial banging groups[/quote]

That's a whole can of worms you've opened right there, Quillan...[:D]

[/quote]

Oops, that's the problem with spellcheckers and dyslectic fingers. [:(]

[/quote]

Poor Quillan, I think you mean dyslexic?

(Ah, don't know why I have posted and hope it's right because....guess what, I haven't checked the spelling either!)

[nomoss]

Discretion is the better part of valour

No, he means dyslectic [:D]

 

 

 

[mint]

[quote user="nomoss"]

Discretion is the better part of valour

No, he means dyslectic [:D]

 

 

 

[/quote]

I guess you're right, nomoss. Shall now go back to cleaning the bathroom.  Don't ask me why I am doing it at this time of night but sometimes it seems that moving about and doing something are not bad methods at keeping warm.  What with all this talk of WFA and pensions being classified as benefits, I feel the need to do something physical and energetic!