Free NHS care for expats

[woolybanana]

It used to be that one was given a credit if unemployed so perhaps your youngster would be covered by that.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="idun"] Is this all journalistic hype???

So a 20 year old british citizen never leaving the country, but not paying in........ wouldn't be covered?????

All needs looking at that is for sure.

[/quote]

Well, I can't see how that would be applied, given that if you're 20 today you could only legally have been working for 4 years. Always assuming you had a job. It will shortly be the case, I believe, that everyone will have to stay in full time education to 18, so then only 2 years' NI contributions at 20.

The 10 year rule would only apply to either non-UK nationals or non-resident UK nationals, surely?

[nomoss]

Yabbadabbadoo!

[powerdesal]

Rabbie wrpte:-

''I f you ever come back to the uk I doubt if you will have any problem finding out your NI number which will have all your previous contributions.

when I returned to the UK after 10 years working abroad it just took a phone call to get my NI number ''

You were lucky.

Mrs PD tried the same on return from living abroad, 3 years later and many many letters / calls etc she received a statement from HMRC saying.....''Mrs PD, you don't exist''

She had to attend a 'Proof of Identity' interview before being given a new NI number - which effectively identifies her as a recent immigrant.

This was despite having a UK birth certificate, UK passport, UK driving licence and having had 3 children born in UK. Her employment record etc, when transferred to a computerised data base had been lost and all paper copies were trashed, not archived.

[woolybanana]

Now, if everone had their number tattooed on them at birth!

[Quillan]

[quote user="idun"] Is this all journalistic hype???

So a 20 year old british citizen never leaving the country, but not paying in........ wouldn't be covered?????

All needs looking at that is for sure.

[/quote]

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=857&intPageId=980&langId=en

"The S1 form allows you to register for healthcare if you live in an EU country, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland but you are insured in a different one of these countries.

This is typically the case of pensioners retiring abroad. It can also be useful for members of the family of migrant workers who have stayed in their country of origin but are now covered by the social security insurance of the country where their family member now works.

It corresponds to the old E106, E109, E120 and E121 forms."

We often think of the S1 form as being a UK form and it is not, it is an EU form. So it will depend on what the 20 year old is going to be doing as to which bit of EU legislation applies.

Going to be a student than they need to register for health cover in the EU country they are moving to but will still be technically resident in the UK.

Looking for work they can stay for up to 6 months but are still resident in the UK for those six months and can get healthcare in the EU country they move to providing they can prove, via registering (“signing on”) for work in that country, that they are actively looking for work.

Travelling in the EU (like taking a year out of Uni etc) they will still be resident in the UK and use a UK issued NHIC card. Their access to the NHS when they return to the UK would not be affected.

None of the above, they will be 'inactive' and have to buy private health insurance. I doubt a 20 year old would fit this category however. It mainly seems to affect people who retire between 55 and 65 and have a private pension. If however they are disability or on other social payment schemes still drawn in the UK they would be entitled to an S1 form and enter the healthcare system in that EU country via that.

Well that’s how I read it anyway although I am sure others will interpret these points differently.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="powerdesal"]You were lucky. [/quote]Well I am just that sort of guy you know[:D]. Sorry Mrs PD had all those problems. Perhaps she was just unlucky rather then me being lucky

[Russethouse]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Now, if everone had their number tattooed on them at birth![/quote]

We should all be microchipped ! :-)

[idun]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Now, if everone had their number tattooed on them at birth![/quote]

Now where would they do that I wonder[Www]

[Russethouse]

 So if I a person was to move away at age about 30, (having paid in for ten years) they could pay tax elsewhere and spend their disposable income elsewhere and just keep popping back for NHS treatment ?

Either the NHS needs more money or it doesn't, if it does then this doesn't look like a very financially astute move, if it doesn't, lets have some more investments to benefit residents.

Or do the powers that be honestly think they will be able to collect enough from non-residents to fund the difference ?

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

 So if I a person was to move away at age about 30, (having paid in for ten years) they could pay tax elsewhere and spend their disposable income elsewhere and just keep popping back for NHS treatment ?

[/quote]

But, surely, they wouldn't want to?[Www]

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

 So if I a person was to move away at age about 30, (having paid in for ten years) they could pay tax elsewhere and spend their disposable income elsewhere and just keep popping back for NHS treatment ?

Either the NHS needs more money or it doesn't, if it does then this doesn't look like a very financially astute move, if it doesn't, lets have some more investments to benefit residents.

Or do the powers that be honestly think they will be able to collect enough from non-residents to fund the difference ?

[/quote]

It would be quite a pricey and tricky thing to do though. I doubt that I'd go back to the UK for treatment even though I don't currently have insurance over here.

And any foreigner going into the UK should pay to get into the system. I have no problem with that at all. If they can afford to move to the UK, then they can afford to pay for the services they need.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Russethouse"]

 So if I a person was to move away at age about 30, (having paid in for ten years) they could pay tax elsewhere and spend their disposable income elsewhere and just keep popping back for NHS treatment ?

[/quote]

But, surely, they wouldn't want to?[Www]
[/quote]

One would hope not, but if health insurance was difficult or expensive for them where they chose to live, maybe it would be tempting ?

[woolybanana]

[quote user="idun"][quote user="woolybanana"]Now, if everone had their number tattooed on them at birth![/quote]

Now where would they do that I wonder[Www]

[/quote]

Don't tempt me.

[YCCMB]

I've been laughing at the TV whilst listening to various news broadcasts today. It would seem that the righteous indignation fuelled by all this "health tourism" seems to be at worst misplaced, at best somewhat disproportionate.

NOW it would appear that "all" these people coming to the UK for treatment are hardly making a dent in the NHS budget or services, and the cost of recouping the money owed may prove to be greater than the cost of maintaining the status quo. I bet there are people at the Daily Mail wondering where it all went wrong. Nigel Farage (if he's yet plucked up the courage to come out of hiding after his offshore tax avoidance activities came to light) is no doubt foaming at the mouth.

GP's seem to be protesting vociferously about the extra administrative burden of proving individual entitlement to treatment, too.

Ah well. Another expat forum myth bites the dust....

[nomoss]

(Partial Quote) [quote user="You can call me Betty"]I've been laughing at the TV whilst listening to various news broadcasts today. It would seem that the righteous indignation fuelled by all this "health tourism" seems to be at worst misplaced, at best somewhat disproportionate.

........................... 

[/quote]

 

It's just another attempt by this rather inept government (not that ineptness is exclusive to this particular bunch) to drum up some support by headlining their solution to yet another mythical problem.

I wonder what's next - I know - how about stopping graduates who have had their studies paid for from the public purse from going abroad to work?

It's just not right for people who trained in the UK to go overseas and not pay taxes in UK![6]

 

 

[YCCMB]

Ha! Half the graduates who train in the UK are non UK nationals in the first place. It's only thanks to the vastly inflated tuition fees charged to foreign students that many Universities can survive!  Then there are the EU students who come to the UK, get a student loan and then miraculously disappear leaving no forwarding address from which the loan can be recovered. You'd have to go back to my generation to find a graduate whose tuition was paid for from the public purse.....

[nomoss]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Ha! Half the graduates who train in the UK are non UK nationals in the first place. It's only thanks to the vastly inflated tuition fees charged to foreign students that many Universities can survive!  Then there are the EU students who come to the UK, get a student loan and then miraculously disappear leaving no forwarding address from which the loan can be recovered. You'd have to go back to my generation to find a graduate whose tuition was paid for from the public purse.....
[/quote]

 

Where do the student loans come from then. please?

And how do EU students get one from UK? That is really interesting.

 

 

[woolybanana]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"] You'd have to go back to my generation to find a graduate whose tuition was paid for from the public purse.....
[/quote]

Betty, just how old are you?[:-))]

[idun]

GP's moaning, is that all they do???? for their highly inflated salaries????

They have so many extra staff, what with all the nurses and phelbotomists and faux cheap doctors, who call themselves nurse practioners, who would have you believe that they are as good as the GP's (in some cases, could be true) but ofcourse in general they should not be, because GP's have done years of training and passed beaucoup hard exams. And then there are the receptionists, who I detest with a passion, that may be hard to imagine. If my french GP's didn't need them, then why do UK GP's. Don't answer, I won't believe a word.

So with all these extra and to my mind unnecessary members of staff, who they could get to just ask patients to show their NHS card and if someone hasn't got one, report them and see if they are entitled to NHS care. We are not talking about rocket science here.

We all have NHS cards, that is for sure. And then it would be down to the NHS to issue these cards to people who are entitled. So frankly, bleating GP's would not really have to get their receptionists to do much.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="nomoss"]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Ha! Half the graduates who train in the UK are non UK nationals in the first place. It's only thanks to the vastly inflated tuition fees charged to foreign students that many Universities can survive!  Then there are the EU students who come to the UK, get a student loan and then miraculously disappear leaving no forwarding address from which the loan can be recovered. You'd have to go back to my generation to find a graduate whose tuition was paid for from the public purse.....

[/quote]

 

Where do the student loans come from then. please?

And how do EU students get one from UK? That is really interesting.

 [/quote]

Well, non-EU/UK nationals don't get any student loan.  The rest is here: [url]http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/do-you-qualify-for-finance-as-an-eu-student[/url]. They come from the "public purse" but strictly speaking, if it's a "loan" then the public purse is ultimately being reimbursed because (the clue's in the title) it's a loan. OTOH, I got paid to go to University.

Woolly...you should never ask a lady her age. I'm 107.

[Russethouse]

<<<They have so many extra staff, what with all the nurses and phelbotomists and faux cheap doctors, who call themselves nurse practioners, who would have you believe that they are as good as the GP's (in some cases, could be true) but ofcourse in general they should not be, because GP's have done years of training and passed beaucoup hard exams. And then there are the receptionists, who I detest with a passion, that may be hard to imagine. If my french GP's didn't need them, then why do UK GP's. Don't answer, I won't believe a word. >>>

If you are unhappy at that surgery can't you leave ?

I obviously deal with our own GP practice but in addition I deal with my mothers GP practce too and I just don't have those problems,( apart from Doreen the impaler, but even she is pleasant ) in fact my mothers practice has been particularly helpful. Not the GPs but the ancillary staff, receptionists, nurses etc

[nomoss]

Thanks Betty, but I don't need instruction on what "loan" means, especially from a centenarian[:D] Altho' your memory isn't doing so badly, all considered. Did you get a card from the Queen?

But by your own statement, many loans are never repaid, and in any case repayments are not even due until a certain salary level is reached, and I don't think the policing is very strict. So I reckon the public purse is still a bit in the red.

I find the amounts loaned to students these days eye-watering. Admittedly I received a non-repayable grant, but I had to work during almost every vacation to live on £260 a year.[:D]

 

Edit: I'd have repaid it if they'd told me they needed it[:)]

 

 

[Russethouse]

I don't know about not policed strictly - my daughter pays a percentage of her salary and any bonuses, its a deducion before she gets her salary, there is no choice. For those working the student loan is repaid through wages.....she's 32 now and it seems pretty endless...

[idun]

Russethouse said: If you are unhappy at that surgery can't you leave ?

I obviously deal with our own GP practice but in addition I deal with

my mothers GP practce too and I just don't have those problems,( apart

from Doreen the impaler, but even she is pleasant ) in fact my mothers

practice has been particularly helpful. Not the GPs but the ancillary

staff, receptionists, nurses etc

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing particularly wrong with my practice, and I have a very nice phlebotomist and my GP's are good and attentive. Even the nurse practioners are OK, although, I would never ever see one unless I had to.

But really, I am looking at 'it' the NHS  and how it is run, as an 'outsider'. As I have said before, I have lived in France for most of my adult life............... it fills me with disgust about the misuse of funds and general stupidity and waste. I'm sure that the french system confuses many people new to France, and I remember it did me, but only to some extent, as truthfully, as a young woman prior to my move, I had had little to do with anything medical in my entire life. Hadn't needed to.

What you think is normal and the way things are done, probably all over the country, are often alien to me. ie My Dad's blood test, done a week ago, results in a month's time (for him at least)????? Now how is that good? If he has to see a Dr. it should be 'soon', if there is a problem, and if there isn't, he should have got a letter with the results, simply saying, normal samples, no further action required, or some such thing.. As it is, one of those 'receptionists' called him and told him he was going to see the Dr on the 31st of July and my Dad thought that was normal. There is nothing 'normal' or reasonable about it, but one has to have an outsiders view point, apparently to see that!

And I know that the french health service is not perfect, but there are some things in it that are very very good.