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The NHS...is it that bad ?


alittlebitfrench

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I personally think that people should pay to see their doctor (20 pounds) and get a proper 30 min appointment.

Any treatment thereafter should be free.

I reckon that would work in the UK if people accepted the idea. It would take some stress and cost out of the NHS.

I very much like the idea of paying to see a doctor. I don't want to see a nurse for free. Or a 5 min rushed appointment with a doctor. If I am ill I want to see a doctor for 30 mins. I am happy to pay.
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Iike the homeless bloke who begs down our local Lidl with a much more expensive mobile phone than me ?

I would tell them to stop playing the Loto, smoking, drinking and spend the money on their health.

Joking aside, people should be means tested. Trouble with that of course is the people who really can't afford lose out to the people who can afford but just play the system. And that is the problem in the UK in every part of life.

So people who really can't afford, don't pay. People who play the system get banned from healthcare for life when caught.

Simples.

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In one of the Scandinavian countries, I think it is, people pay according to their means. Presumably this means that some might pay more than, say, £20.

The homeless bloke outside Lidl with an expensive mobile phone might just have nicked it, or be earning much more than he is declaring. Or he might have paid for it honestly.

On the question of privatization, the only things to consider is whether the private sector does the job as well as or better than the NHS for the same or less money.
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I don't think it is as straightforward as you suppose.

This is someone I know -

a single mother with two children who is reasonably well-qualified and works very hard. Earns enough not to qualify for any benefits, but is nevertheless only just making ends meet. If a child is ill and needs to visit the doctor she has to take time off work thus reducing her income, if she had to pay for the doctor's visit the real cost would be much more than £20.. There might be a temptation not to go to the doctor at at all.
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Fair comment Hoody, but she would lose income whether paying a visit fee or not.

There is an arguement for expecting people to think twice before going to the doctor anyway, though this could be running risks.

What worries me is the administration cost of it all, given that the State is very inefficient at same.
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I realise that she would be losing pay anyway. I was just making the point that even a sum as small as £20 might be enough to influence the decision as to whether to take the time off work or not.

I like the idea of everyone paying in to a ring-fenced fund. It might make people more thoughtful about wasting time. In my doctor's waiting room there is always a notice showing the shocking number of missed appointments. I suppose charging people for them would not be cost efficient.
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As a general rule I would charge for missed appointments, stop benefits even, if missed.

May cost a bit to run initially, but frankly I bet it would stop most of them and the system could wind down.

There could be exceptions to this 'fine' ofcourse, ie someone ends up in hospital seriously ill, and ofcourse GP's and Hospitals are not linked up. Those with demenita etc, but apart from that, there is no good reason for not calling in advance, these days there is not.

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In a very real example of what Hoddy describes, a near neighbour died in France aged just 38, of heart failure brought on by severe 'flu. He left a widow, and a seven year old son and a newborn daughter. He died mainly because he couldn't afford the cost of a visit to the doctor. OK, maybe he might have died anyway, but he wouldn't go to the doctor because he couldn't afford to and had no insurance.

And yes, I know he would have been reimbursed or whatever.
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I know that, you know that. But the fact remains (and I know his family to this day) that he believed that by seeking medical help there would be a cost implication and he believed that he couldn't afford to seek that help.

38. Died in a house with a dirt floor and his wife and kids in the same room.

There's poverty like that in France and the U.K. At present, however much shit the NHS might be in, however much criticism there might be of its standards, nobody needs to feel worried that they can't afford treatment.

Another friend of mine, who isn't that old, is back in France after working most of her adult life abroad. She has worked the last umptyteen years in Bali. She came home because her kids have now left Bali, but she has severe cardiac problems and everyone was afraid for her that if she had another heart attack, she'd die. The nearest halfway competent hospital to Bali is Jakarta.

So she's now working remotely for the Balinese company from France. Her French doctor insisted that she go for 3 weeks of assessment and rehab. He said that if she continued refusing or putting it off, he'd stop treating her. She has no mutuelle and has been worried about the costs she's going to incur.

I left France last Saturday. She was due to go to the hospital on Monday. I got an email to say that on the Sunday she was rushed to Bordeaux after suffering 3 small heart attacks. 99% of the cause was the anxiety she was feeling about being forced to go for 3 weeks rehab and assessment. She knew it would be a good thing, she was just terrified about the cost. And she needs to keep working because she has no French social contributions history worth a damn.

So, these are the sort of issues that can occur if people have to contribute directly to the cost of their care.
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Betty wrote:

Another friend of mine, who isn't that old, is back in France after working most of her adult life abroad. She has worked the last umptyteen years in Bali. She came home because her kids have now left Bali, but she has severe cardiac problems and everyone was afraid for her that if she had another heart attack, she'd die. The nearest halfway competent hospital to Bali is Jakarta.

So she's now working remotely for the Balinese company from France. Her French doctor insisted that she go for 3 weeks of assessment and rehab. He said that if she continued refusing or putting it off, he'd stop treating her. She has no mutuelle and has been worried about the costs she's going to incur.

I left France last Saturday. She was due to go to the hospital on Monday. I got an email to say that on the Sunday she was rushed to Bordeaux after suffering 3 small heart attacks. 99% of the cause was the anxiety she was feeling about being forced to go for 3 weeks rehab and assessment. She knew it would be a good thing, she was just terrified about the cost. And she needs to keep working because she has no French social contributions history worth a damn.

and the same should probably also apply in the UK. The commonly held myth is that you just have to turn up and get free treatment from the NHS. There is not enough info in your post to make a decision but there is enough that questions should at least be raised.

In fairness it often happens that people do just get free treatment but from what you have written this lady might not be due free treatment in the UK either.
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