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France overrun by les rosbifs?


Logan

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It's also interesting to follow the link at the end of the article that Logan has posted headed " Taxes hit all-time high". All of you who work in France say how high the taxes are here but Gordon Brown doesn't seem that far behind. Is that why so many Rosbifs are heading in this direction?

Benjamin

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[quote]“Not only have you stolen ‘our’ Olympic Games, you are also shamelessly occupying our towns and countryside,” writes José-Alain Fralon, author of Help, the English are Invading Us, which is shortly to go on sale.[/quote]

Says it all really!

[quote]"Fralon cites villages such as Couesmes Vauce in the Loire Valley."[/quote]

Couesmes Vaucé is in Pays de la Loire and nowhere near the Loire Valley - very well researched!

Regards

David

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[quote user="Dicksmith"]Hmmm. Book about to go on sale, provocative articles appear in newspapers.
Could these events be linked?
[/quote]

Slightly cynical Dick. I am leaving France because the country is in terminal decline. I have been warning those who desire a life in France to think again. The French are hurting and the pain will get worse before anything will change. The anti-british sentiments are increasing because of the difficulties the country is facing. It's not a place for a new life.

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[quote user="Logan"]

Slightly cynical Dick. I am leaving France because the country is in terminal decline. I have been warning those who desire a life in France to think again. The French are hurting and the pain will get worse before anything will change. The anti-british sentiments are increasing because of the difficulties the country is facing. It's not a place for a new life.

[/quote]

I’m unsure about the “terminal decline”. All countries go through good and bad spells. UK may easily have a bad spell coming (the “books” just are not balancing at the moment, etc.). US has record borrowings that are pretty unbelievable. France has problems that need to be addressed. They are not easy problems so it is unlikely that some politician will make a decision and all will be well again. Of course things will take time. Of course there will be some objections,. Of course the “solutions” will not suit everybody and not everybody will be better of as they are implemented. The same is true of the UK, US, etc.

From my own experience I experience virtually no anti-British sentiments. My own belief is that, as with many things in life, there are a few people who wish to blame their problems on somebody else. British are (for some) an easy target. After all, write a book about how some middle eastern countries are “invading France”, bringing their own cultures, own shops, restaurants, religions, etc. and you would be “inciting racial hatred” (or something along those lines). I think many French people realise that most British move to France with some savings, tend not to seek work but rather retire (early for some), use local services, local artisans, local shops, etc. thus helping the economy rather than working to its detriment. There have been books and articles like this before and nobody really bothers too much about them. People tend to make up their own minds rather than be influenced.

Different people will have different experience when moving to France. For me, life here is excellent. Much better than in the UK. There is space, friendly people who care more about who you are rather than “what you’ve got”, etc., etc. I will almost certainly return to the UK (or move on to another country) – but no idea when as I’m enjoying myself too much here at the moment.

You may warn people that France is not the place for a “new life”, but, from my own experiences, I would tell them the opposite. How things would work out for any individual probably depends on many factors some of which are outside anybody’s control. I would always recommend that people weigh up risks and consequences and bear in mind that this life is the real thing, not a “dress rehearsal” so you only get one go to do or try things you want. Everything does not always work out as one might wish, but that is no reason not to try things. There is some famous expression that goes something like “Failure is easier to deal with that regret at not having tried something”.

Ian

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[quote user="Dicksmith"]Logan - I can only speak as I find.
Did you leave the UK for similar reasons?
[/quote]

Au contraire cher Dick! The eighties were good to me in the UK. Moved to France and invested full of hope. Handed most of it to French socialist governments over the years. Now need to be back in UK to survive in a real market economy. France and business are like chalk is to cheese.

The France of today is like the UK of the Wilson era in the seventies. Reform was painful then but desparately needed. Problem is France has no political will for meaningful change, running out of ideas and is living beyond it's means on borrowed time. Sound familiar? 

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[quote user="Deimos"][There is some famous expression that goes something like “Failure is easier to deal with that regret at not having tried something”. Ian[/quote]

Sounds like smug, armchair nonsense to me!   What if you've paid a high price for the failure and you end up regretting having tried?   It's a feelgood quote, like those whose life is going well will say something smugly dopey like "yes, you make your own luck in this life".  Non mais! [:D] 

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[quote user="Logan"]

The France of today is like the UK of the Wilson era in the seventies.

[/quote]

You obviously mean this as the most vehement criticism of France. For those of us with memories of happier pre-Thatcherite days, this may well sum up why many of the older people on the forum have chosen to move to France. In fact, I couldn't have put it better myself!

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Oh I would rather have Thatcher back than suffer any more of Blair and his crew.

Under Thatcher I had free university education and my parents were allowed to buy their council house, which ultimately gave them financial freedom and choices.

France may not be perfect and  for some people, it may not provide them with the life they had hoped for, but I can see where Diemos is coming from with his view that life is not a rehearsal.

There are those that make the move , for good or bad and there are many who are happy to have a holiday home and then there are some that that sit in the UK bemoaning their life but finding reasons ( some valid, some not) why they shouldn't move anywhere, not just France.

I think everyone who moves to France is taking a risk and for me, it is risk worth taking!

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I read it this morning and was going to post but we went to spain to pick up the other halfs seedlings for her alotment.Read the post on it`s happening down here and you will see that this it is starting or more to the point started down here,ie there is a web site aimed at the english that will do anything from buying you a house to watering the plants so that you never need to speak to a french person.So I think it will only be a matter of time before the resentment starts to show.
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We have tha same problems in Wales where the English move in with their different culture especially to the more sought after areas of the West and North where the majority of the population speak Welsh.  However similarly to the France where most Brits buy, these are more rural areas.  The problem here is that the English who buy here are of retired age pushing the property prices up and not contributing to the schools which envitably close.  The young locals must then move to the surrounding 'cheaper' areas away from where they aspire to live.  It's life.  The French, like the Welsh cannot have their cake and eat it!  They sell their houses at a premium.  They are all smiles then.  What they should look at is the positive side.  These people bring wealth into an area.  Cultures are shared and we learn from each other.  We adapt by providing affordable housing for the young.  There is much global movement throughout the world.  The Brits who buy in France and the English who buy in Wales are decent people who have usually worked hard all their lives not phoney "assylum seekers" sponging off the state.
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... quite.  And I have only ever seen British people being welcomed here, and as already said, being "almost French" my husband (who is completely French) and I have never personally heard about any resentment.  Perhaps, those who feel there is, could give some solid examples  (without falling in the exceptional).  Is there a possibility that when things don't turn out quite as planned, there has to be someone to blame?

 

 

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Some comments have been made by those who

live in both countries probably becaue they cannot decide where to live or unwilling to give it a go or even have enough money to buy two properties.

the decision is difficult sometimes but we all have to make a choice-c'est la vie.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[quote user="Logan"]

The France of today is like the UK of the Wilson era in the seventies....

[/quote]

I have to confess to having a 'soft' spot for dear old Harold as he kept me out of Vietnam despite all of the pressures from the US!  I have a number of friends in Australia who are Returned Servicemen from that conflict and some suffered very badly mentally.  The Aussies were put into the worst trouble spots to decrease the number of body bags going back Stateside.  I shudder to think what would have happened to us if Blair had been in power then! 

Brian 11500    

 

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I should like to make it clear that I have no problem with the standard of life in France or how French people behave to anyone none French. For me that is always going to be subjective and irrelevant. People are the same anywhere you travel in this world. However political and social systems are not.

Wealth creation in France is considered to be slightly suspect. The society has not moved on from the postwar boom of the fifties. Colonial domination remains an aspiration. A divine right to rule also still exists among the political elite and in the minds of the middle class and the functionaries. The class structure of France is maintained by the belief that workers and peasants need to be subsidised and preserved in aspic by a benevolent state. Anything less is thought as revolutionary and dangerous to the cultural values of the French. In short France is living in the past politically, economically and culturally.

I agree very much with the wise words of 'Saligo Bay'. So many folk put their 'wet dreams' before the realites of economic independence. France is a tough environment to make a go of life unless your desire is to be spoon fed by the state. Personally I desire to be independent and keep what I work for and make my own decisions on how my income is spent. Governments will always make a balls of it. 

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Logan, I would love to take you up on so many points but I'm up to my armpits in a similar discussion on TF. (Ask SB, or perhaps not!) There's nothing wrong with disliking the way the French arrange things, my only point is, why live there if you feel that way?
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I suppose one question I have never received a satisfactory answer to

(or, indeed, much any answer) is this: if the economies of the UK and

France are rooted in such different philosophies (one dynamic &

thrusting, the other tired & stagnant) how can they be, at the highest

level, so similar?

GDP UK $1867 billion (1.8% real growth in2005)

GDP France $1816 billion (1.5% real growth in 2005)

The French economy is quite clearly NOT spiralling to its doom any more than the UK is. For the time being, anyway.

Colonial domination remains an aspiration

And the Anglo-Saxon nations of the World do not have similar aspirations?

A divine right to rule also still exists among the political elite and in the minds of the middle class and the functionaries.

This is true of most countries on Earth. There are very few places that

could truely be called meritocracies. Oligarchies are the predominant

political structure of most large economies.

The class structure of France is maintained by the belief that workers

and peasants need to be subsidised and preserved in aspic by a

benevolent state.

Could be - or perhaps they remember that they got their butts

thoroughly kicked once before and that the proles here have yet to

forget their collective strength, so it is best to pacify rather than

confront. I suppose that could be considered a kind of democracy.

In short France is living in the past politically, economically and culturally.

Or just taking a contrary political stance. After all, unfettered free

markets do not work to the benefit of everyone: logically, there can

only be a very few winners and an awful lot of losers. The UK has 17%

of its population apparantly living in poverty; the US has 12%. It may

be easier to become rich in these places, but it is also easier to

become poor. France, by contrast, 6.5%. To me, that looks like a pretty

good measure of a functioning socio-economic system.

Personally I desire to be independent and keep what I work for and make my own decisions on how my income is spent
.

This always sounds good, but in practice one of the things that tax

money is spent on is policing, which is something of a necessity if the

rich wish to stay that way. I suppose an alternative could be to hire

private security guards, though I'm not sure it would work out more

cost effective.

I'm certainly not going to pretend that life in France is some kind

nirvana, because it isn't. On the other hand, I do not accept that it

is a system that is fundamentally flawed. It works, and it works OK

(not brilliantly) for most people. Looking around at alternative

systems, that's a pretty high score.

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