Contrasts in Criteria:

[Gluestick]

As I sleepily moved through the kitchen, early this morning, in search of my wake-up tea, since my wife was watching ITV's breakfast "News" programme, I was forcibly struck by a very powerful contrast.

On the one hand, there was passing coverage of a dreadful event in Manchester, where apparently, a 13 year old boy and a 15 year old boy had been shot: one five times, whilst playing on their 'bikes, in the street.

After a quick comment from Ilford, East London, the scene of a recent violent terrorist arrest, the coverage moved more importantly on to what the England football team ate for breakfast, which story occupied far more air time.

Thus it seems we have a pretty good indication of what the media (and the public) think is of the greatest importance.

Worrying.......................................................................[:(]

[Patf]

I've thought about this Gluestick, especially when they are constantly

reporting the terrible things happening daily in Iraq. Have they been

told to report it in a cheerful manner? ( listening now to the same

thing on the radio.) Maybe senses become dulled from too much bad news

and we, or some people, don't react with appropriate shock any longer.

For light relief we talk about football. Not me though as we prefer

rugby. Pat.

[Iceni]

But stabbings/shootings happen every day - what makes this one so especially important ? - whereas the WC is every 4 years. Sorry just sad facts of life.

John

not

 

[PossumGirl]

The old newspaper adage is: "If it bleeds, it leads," which explains why gory gets coverage.  Also, "local" content is far more important than almost anything that happens "over there."

We always used to crack up at the headlines in Los Angeles; ANYTHING with a "celebrity" was a lead, no matter how stupid it was.  And, of course, I'm afraid that the L.A. media is responsible for anyplace in the world that gets coverage of car chases.  The local stations fight to see whose helicopters can get the best pictures a car chase.  It's particularly juicy if someone gets injured, or even better, killed, during one of these.  Then, the on air talent (term used lightly) can wring their hands and gnash their teeth over the horror of it all!

PG

[Catalpa]

I think the media mostly delivers what the audience wants, particularly on breakfast tv. On breakfast television, that will be lightweight froth not hard analysis. I suppose you could argue (not sure I would argue, but...) that the stabbings story is of more than just "tut tut" interest to a relatively small part of the population. The obsession with.... sorry, interest in football and Rooney's metatarsal is apparently relevant to far far more. (Though not to me.[+o(]) The same apparent reporting imbalance would not have been noticeable on, say, the Today program on R4. There's a whole different imbalance there.[:)]

I suppose what I would argue is that if all reporting across all news media was all the same, then that would be even more worrying...

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Iceni"]

But stabbings/shootings happen every day - what makes this one so especially important ? - whereas the WC is every 4 years. Sorry just sad facts of life.

John

[/quote]

I suppose that John pretty well sums it up.

Problem is it was a shooting and of two young boys. It is well worth recalling at this point, that handguns were banned after the Dunblane tragedy: and that mere possession of a handgun earns a mandatory prison sentence. In theory.........................

Perhaps when UK society reaches a level similar to (e.g.) one of the old US frontier towns in the later half of the 1800s and when more "Normal" people are shot and killed, then the great uninformed majority will be shouting for "Them" to do something about it.

Sadly, as is the new wave way with UK society, complacency rules, OK?

How does France react to this sort of street violence? How strict are gun possession rules (particularly handguns) in France? Is France seeing a similar epidemic of shooting/stabbing crimes of violence? Can one still buy smooth-bore "Self Defense" weapons in France? I know that in the early 90s, one could buy neat little automatic pistols (9 m.m) which fired CS gas cartridges or Flaubert, I seem to recall it was called (grit to temporarily blind your assailant).

Are these weapons still available: and legal?

 

[Ron Avery]

The two young "boys" on bikes shot were part of a gang of 10 or so playing out on their bikes at 23-50 at night to be precise. More to this one than meets the eye!!

Mr G Why does Mrs G equate GM TV with news anyway?  if you want to hear the news of a fashion try the Today programme although that is probably edited by the NUJ who make sure no bad news about their membership is broadcast, for example did you hear on any news programme:

The ITV News channel was being scrapped due to nobody watching it.

The head of SKY news was sacked because his three newsreaders crammed around a bench or walking around was panned and viewing figures dropped? (Just how many people does it take to read the News for an hour?  French TV manage it quite well with one, so why three on SKY and the BBC 's breakfast. Glad I don't pay a License fee anymore)

The "fake sheik" who has probably made sure that England don't win the World Cup and the USA or Australia have a better chance,  was outted by George Galloway whom he tried to con.  (Am I the only person who thinks the team Eriksson has picked is his way of giving the UK sports media the finger? [;-)]

Did not hear any of those stories on the news from "freedom of the press UK"?  I wonder why not?

 

Rant over I'm going to lay in the sun and enjoy the weather!!

[Iceni]

What I want to know is why a 13 year old and also perhaps a 15 year old boy was out at that time of night 'playing on their bikes' with a group of other lads. The police say the shooting took place 'late at night'.

Being a miserable old woman I can assure you that my sons were only allowed out to organised activities in the evening but that has all changed now and parents seem to think that it is OK for both sexes to be out to all hours from the age of about 10 - or younger. Thank goodness I managed to bring up 2 boys who never argued that they were being hard done by and lived to adulthood.

Here - in rural France, the young do what they are told in the most part. Don't know about the large towns, don't have one nearby.

As the song says - I'm  glad I'm not young anymore (Maurice Chevalier - Gigi 1958).

[Gluestick]

Ron: Mrs G sort of switches the kittchen TV on as active wallpaper I think! I am shortly going to sabotage it! Agree: I also sometimes listen to R4. I can't stand the endless drivel on any channel, masquerading as "Current Affairs", either and much prefer French TV.

However those comments apart, I am interested here in perspective: that's all.

Di: Couldn't agree more! Apart from the aches and pains, I am glad to be old, too! As GBS said, "Isn't it a great pity that youth is wasted upon the young!"

 

[zeb]

Not much street violence here in rural Charente but I'm sure there is in the large towns and cities across France. But even here in r.C., there are beatings, stabbings and shootings - many reported in the local paper - mostly domestic, so they go relatively unnoticed by those who don't read French newspapers.

[Patmobile]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Perhaps when UK society reaches a level similar to (e.g.) one of the old US frontier towns in the later half of the 1800s and when more "Normal" people are shot and killed, then the great uninformed majority will be shouting for "Them" to do something about it.

[/quote]

Actually, I read somewhere, and believe it's true, that killings in Dodge City, Tombstone, and other towns whose names became bywords for violent " wild west" action, were remarkably few compared with modern day American cities. 

I bet you're statistically far more likely to be shot in Manchester now than you ever were in the wild west days in Dodge.

Patrick

[PossumGirl]

[quote user="Patmobile"]

Actually, I read somewhere, and believe it's true, that killings in Dodge City, Tombstone, and other towns whose names became bywords for violent " wild west" action, were remarkably few compared with modern day American cities. 

I bet you're statistically far more likely to be shot in Manchester now than you ever were in the wild west days in Dodge.

[/quote]

Last year there was a series of shootings on the L.A. Freeways.  These were quite random, occurring in various places and at different times of day and no one was ever caught.  The L.A. Chief of Police gave a press conference where he said something like: "You really need to put it in context.  We've actually had fewer shootings this year than usual, so it's really not something you should worry about." Talk about damning with faint praise!

PG

[Gluestick]

Yes, Patrick, that appears to be statistically correct. I used the illustration as a sort of conceptual acceptance and belief.

What does concern me, is the reality of violent gun crime (often affecting totally innocent parties) in so many British cities, now, such as Bristol (St. Paul's District), Nottingham, Manchester (Moss Side), specific parts of London ( e.g.s Tottenham, Balham etc) and so on. Most of it apparently, drugs related.

No one with any answers to the questions I posed about France?

 

 

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

No one with any answers to the questions I posed about France?

[/quote]

Gluestick, if you want to know about France, just read a selection of French papers and magazines, from any tabac.  After a while you won't know whether you're reading about the UK or France, it all sounds so similar!  [:D]

I posted a link recently to a magazine whose cover was "La vérité sur la violence des jeunes".  Knives, gratuitous violence on passers-by by gangs of youths, using mobile phones to record violent attacks on teachers and others, and so on and so on.

Parts of Montpellier have regular little outbursts of violence.  After a teenager was killed in a police chase a couple of weeks ago there were a few days of violence, 50 cars burned in a few nights.   The last time I was in Montpellier centre alone, I didn't feel particularly safe, and the local papers regularly report attacks, often by the SDF population.

Friends who live in what would seem to a visitor as a quaint, traditional village up towards Lyon, they're trying to move because of the level of yoof trouble in the village.  We got off lightly when we visited them, we only lost the Subaru badge off the car, but some nights 5 or 6 cars at a time can be broken into and/or stolen.

But if you want to know these things, you do have to read regularly and often.  And talk to French people about France.   Stick to France as a subject, don't even mention Britain, and you might be surprised what you find out.

I wonder if it's only British people who have illusions about this?   French people certainly don't!   Crime and safety is always a major issue in elections.   Le Pen was especially strong on it, tapping into the insecurity of the population.   I think he blamed the wrong people, but still, the point is that people are worried.

  

 

 

[Gluestick]

Many thanks, SB.

In fact, I have some very informative French friends, who provide me with much perspective.

It seems that any city, particularly those near the sea are being affected.

Additionally, I do understand that your area has an above average crime problem. Have some dear English friends, who live half the year  near Perpignon, in a marina I know quite well. He was a pretty senior police officer in the UK prior to retirement and has integrated well with the local gendarmerie. His car has been vandalised three times in the past few years, despite living on a pretty well guarded and "Secure" complex.

His comment was the nearness to Africa and Marseille is the primary causer.

It has definitely changed, significantly since I knew it in the early 90s.

I still seek some answers to my earlier questions concerning handguns and personal defence weapons. I could easily purchase these in various places (Decathlon e.g.) in Perpignon, in 1991.

 

[Cassis]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

What does concern me, is the reality of violent gun crime (often affecting totally innocent parties) in so many British cities

[/quote]

I get the opposite impression - that most of those who are victims of gun crime are actually involved in drugs in some way and know their assailants.   Random gun crime involving totally innocent parties seems comparatively rare.

Phil

[Gluestick]

Phil:

Yes and I do agree that most guncrimes tend to involve those connected in some way, with the perps.

However, it is apparent that peripheral and innocent victims are increasing, particularly in so-called, drive by shootings which are, of course, a common reality in places like Washington DC.

Only a few years ago, one of the top selling items was, for example, as ballistic resistant blanket for babies in prams!

Also, many of the handguns used in the UK are converted "Replicas" which are smooth bore and thus vary innacurate: and the shooters are not expert: far from it.

Anyone who has shot handguns, knows how notoriously hard it is to hit a pistol target at 25 metres!

Also, I fear, media reporting on these matters is carefully restrained as are police and home office press releases. Thus hard to actually arrive at the facts.