NickP Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Used in the sneering way it was; it's totally inappropriate when or where ever it's made. Especially when it's made behind the anonymity of a keyboard by someone who I bet wouldn't use it in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 No argument with you there, Nick. For me a forum is a public place and I was more thinking that a remark that would be inappropriate in public might not be so if made in the company of friends who you know will agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I would guess then that the answer to my original question is that UKIP voters are (supposed to be ) uneducated, have strongly held 'not nice' (ie not PC) opinions etc etc.All 4 million of them, plus the ones who tactically voted to avoid a Labour + SNP alliance.A somewhat arrogant assumption by someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I note that America dies not want the UK to leave the EU .Thats it in then.......We will not be leaving . I cant remember when a UK government ever went against the wishes of the USA.. When they say jump we usually ask then how high ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 W/B wrote,'a man who is thought to be typical of drivers of white vans by being being rude, not well educated and having very strong, unpleasant opinions.' (Cambridge Dictionaries Online) I think they could be right on this. It is indeed a fair assessment of the Yodel delivery driver who calls here occasionally, he is Polish BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 [quote user="powerdesal"]I would guess then that the answer to my original question is that UKIP voters are (supposed to be ) uneducated, have strongly held 'not nice' (ie not PC) opinions etc etc. All 4 million of them, plus the ones who tactically voted to avoid a Labour + SNP alliance. A somewhat arrogant assumption by someone.[/quote]I suspect the majority of those who voted UKIP did so because they thought Nigel Farage was correct in saying all our problems would be solved if the UK left the EU. No clear explanation has been given as to what the UK does after leaving the EU. Some have suggested something similar to the Norway arrangement but as the Norwegian foreign minister has said this would give the UK all the costs with no say in the rules - hardly a big step forward. If there had been a lot of tactical voting then I would have expected UKIP to have won more seats but as we have a secret ballot then who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 [quote user="Rabbie"]No argument with you there, Nick. For me a forum is a public place and I was more thinking that a remark that would be inappropriate in public might not be so if made in the company of friends who you know will agree with you.[/quote]What I was saying Rabbie is that I bet he wouldn't say that to my face, or the faces of a lot of people, who he wasn't friends with. That's what I mean by in public, but he thinks it OK because he is anonymous on a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 [quote user="ebaynut"]'a man who is thought to be typical of drivers of white vans by being being rude, not well educated and having very strong, unpleasant opinions.'[/quote]This is an offensive definition. We have a white van, and before this one we had another. And we argue strongly that the UK should stay in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 White van man is the reason why it's now much easier to get a seat on the Clapham Omnibus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 And why the trains are so crowded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Rabbie wrote:- ''I suspect the majority of those who voted UKIP did so because they thought Nigel Farage was correct in saying all our problems would be solved if the UK left the EU. No clear explanation has been given as to what the UK does after leaving the EU. Some have suggested something similar to the Norway arrangement but as the Norwegian foreign minister has said this would give the UK all the costs with no say in the rules - hardly a big step forward.If there had been a lot of tactical voting then I would have expected UKIP to have won more seats but as we have a secret ballot then who knows''As I understand the tactical voting situation it was that UKIP supporters voted Tory in many places to ensure that Labour did not win in order to avoid a Labour + SNP National government.Therefore such tactical voting could never have led to an expectation of more UKIP seats, exactly the opposite in fact - as happened.Your suspicion Rabbie, that the majority of those who voted UKIP did so because they thought Nigel Farage was correct in saying all our problems would be solved if the UK left the EU is IMO misplaced. It is somewhat condescending and arrogant to assume that anyone who supports UKIP must be so very gullible and unthinking.As for no clear explanation of what the UK does 'if' it leaves the EU, well, think back to what the UK did before the EU, It had it's ups and downs, it's successes and failures, it's good times and bad times. Membership of the EU is not a panacea for all National ills.Those who support and wish for 'Brexit' do so because they believe that the UK can be a successful independent Sovereign Country,trading with others around the World, friends with most and ruled democratically by its own Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 So, for my benefit if not anyone else's, what other key policy proposals of UKIP did its supporters find so attractive that they were swayed to vote for them? What do the UKIP intelligentsia know that us poor saps have overlooked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 PD, my apologies for misunderstanding your point about tactical voting. I agree with your analysis now I understand your point.I don't think I was being condescending or arrogant in why I thought a lot of people voted for UKIP. It seems rational to me to vote for a party because you think its leader is correct. I could equally say that you are being arrogant in your analysis of my motives.I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a party that wants to take an irreversible step to spell out what it wants to do. In any referendum we should have a clear knowledge about the consequences of our votes. At present there are mixed messages coming from those in favour of a Brexit as to what they want to happen. Clarity will do no harm.If we were all agreed on the correct solution the there would be no need for debate but as we differ in our views on this let's agree to discuss it without personal abuse which invariably leads to more heat than light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Betty wrote:- So, for my benefit if not anyone else's, what other key policy proposals of UKIP did its supporters find so attractive that they were swayed to vote for them? What do the UKIP intelligentsia know that us poor saps have overlooked? I suggest you read the summary of the election manifesto at the link below:-http://www.ukip.org/ukip_manifesto_summary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Rabbie wrote:-''If we were all agreed on the correct solution the there would be no need for debate but as we differ in our views on this let's agree to discuss it without personal abuse which invariably leads to more heat than light.''I totally agree Rabbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Patf wrote,ebaynut wrote: 'a man who is thought to be typical of drivers of white vans by being being rude, not well educated and having very strong, unpleasant opinions.' This is an offensive definition. We have a white van, and before this one we had another. And we argue strongly that the UK should stay in the EU. Patf,If you had taken the trouble to read this whole thread, and in particular page six, you would have known that this quote was originally posted by W/B, I merely replied to it with the comment,‘I think they could be right on this. It is indeed a fair assessment of the Yodel delivery driver who calls here occasionally, he is Polish BTW’. I have now edited my post to show it was indeed his quote (and no doubt opinion) and not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The definition was one which I dredged up really to find out what ' white van man' is and to stimulate dscussion!The line concerning the Yodel driver quoted in the previous post is definitely not mine.During the election, I remember a commentary which said that UKIP was targetting white van man, and a foto of a house with a white van outside and a Union Jack hanging from the window, so, logically white van man was seen as a natural target by UKIP.What, I wonder, is the French equivalent of wvm?I have definitely not given my opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 This little article is quite fun. Please make it live someonehttp://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/the-saga-of-ed-miliband-and-white-van-man-reveals-a-politics-based-on-grievance-and-cowardice/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 So W/B, are you saying that when you said,'relatively unsophisticated voters 'you did not mean white van man ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 "The greatest thing about the internet, is that you can quote something and totally make up the source." - George Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 [quote user="ebaynut"]So W/B, are you saying that when you said,'relatively unsophisticated voters 'you did not mean white van man ??[/quote]Yes, largely, but not exclusively. There are no absolutes in these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 So, Powerdesal wishes me to read UKIP's election manifesto. I don't want to read it, because it doesn't answer my question, which was "What other UKIP proposals do its supporters find so attractive...?" Ergo, as a UKIP supporter and having, I assume, done the homework, perhaps someone could tell me what they found so attractive other than the whole Brexit/immigration issue. It's not up to me to read the document and second guess what others found worth voting for, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessie Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Strange comment - 'don't want to read it because it doesn't answer my question'...!!If you haven't read HOW do you know it doesn't answer your question.As to what UKIP would do - it would return the UK to being a sovereign country, able to decide who does and does not reside in the country; able tto pass its own laws in accordance with the UK's Common Law, and Bill of Rights - andVERY important -get us out of the TTIP - which will be a disaster for the NHS in particular.No reason why the UK, as a sovereign country, can't have its own trade Treaty with the USA; in the EU the UK is just one vote out of 27 and with Qualified Majority Voting - we might just as well not be there; the rest of the EU is out of step with the UK mainly because the UK has Common Law, the european countries have Roman Law - totally different, diametrically different approach to freedom and citizens rights.I'd suggest reading up on the difference would enable people to understand just why Europe is so out of step with the UK - where citizens are 'born free' with all rights; in Europe citizens only have rights granted to them........ read up on it, then you might understand the appeal of UKIP and why so many in the UK wish to return to a Common Market - remember that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 So what you're saying then Cheesie , in answer to YCCMB's question, is that there was nothing else interesting about UKIP other than Brexit/immigration.When you say you wish to return to a 'common market' are you referring to the trading arrangements within Europe that existed before the EU? I can't see that the UK, outside of the EU, would be able to negotiate trading agreements unilaterally with other EU countries, unless the EU itself folds and devolves power down to individual states and I just can't see that happening. Britain's decision is stay or leave, but if it leaves it can have no say in how the remaining EU countries do business. It's not like Britain is a big producer of something that the rest of Europe wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 So what your saying Lindal is that before the UK joined the EU we never traded with the members of the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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