NormanH Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 Here are some things to consider:https://institute.global/sites/default/files/2020-11/Tony%20Blair%20Institute%2C%20Unpacking%20the%20Brexit%20Deal%2C%20November%202020%20FINAL.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted December 25, 2020 Author Share Posted December 25, 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/24/from-tariffs-to-visas-heres-whats-in-the-brexit-deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Norman, For some reason I was unable to reply to your first post.The Blair document covers the topics we should have been seeing 5 years ago. Hindsight is wonderful.Is it a good deal ? From my selfish point of view I just feel relief that it's done (not over 'til the fat MPs sing though).Merry Christmas to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTr@sh Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 I suppose this is where we all get selfish and judge it on the bits that affect us.For me it's things that affect the tourist industry that I am interested in and I'm waiting to see what the crack is for posted workers. From what I can glean there is still some scope, specifically for highly skilled workers, and it seems that the social security arrangements will continue so that posted workers will remain covered by home country's social security system, which is good. But I haven't seen anything in black and white to confirm whether or not that work permits will be required for workers posted to the EU from the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 I could open the link, and then realised that it had something to do with Tony Blair, and stopped reading.Truthfully I could put something through my tv screen when the little xxxxx comes on the telly. I will say immediately, 'get him off' if I haven't got the tv control near me...........and, if he gets to about 6 words, I am just about screaming like a banshee.......... GET HIM OFF! Such is my loathing for him and one day, he may have a good idea, but I there are others who can have good ideas and I would prefer to listen to them.I have not watched the news yet. They say an agreement is done and as with the majority of divorces I have seen in my life, I daresay both sides will end up with some grievances. How it will affect us personally, well, to be seen as yet. We will adjust to circumstances, quite simple really. As I keep saying, if we have to move back to France, well, so be it, but I really would prefer not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 The Blair Institute piece is hypothetical as it was penned in November so is of no more than a passing interest but whether you care for the man or not, or his institute, it's still a point of view and to dismiss it on such irrational grounds is symptomatic of the blinkered and partisan attitudes which led the country to the brink of catastrophe, and some would argue with the deal as struck, over it.I too loathe Blair but I loathe Boris and his gang of 'Trumpesqe' sycophants and enablers just as much but if I were to follow your lead I would have read nothing and learnt nothing about anything!Whether it's a good deal or a bad one is not really a question as the devil is in the detail and until we see how it pans out in practice in the coming months and years it's impossible to call either way, if forced to opine at this exact moment the best I could say is that a deal - any deal - is vastly better than the alternative and leave it at that.Time will tell then but I think one thing which is abundantly clear is that things will never work out better to what we have kissed goodbye to and because of that beyond any shadow of a doubt both sides are net losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Hear, hear to that AnO !(Although apparently I'm in no position to judge according to the clique) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 I'm embarrassed now to admit that I cheered when Blair was first elected but this support gradually turned to contempt as his hypocrisy began to show itself. But to compare him with Trump or Boris is like comparing Mother Theresa with Satan.Boris now bathes in the glory of getting Brexit done, no matter now bad it is for everyone except the Rees-Moggs of this world. Brexiters will laugh when the UK doesn't fall off the proverbial cliff in January, unable to understand that it will just be the beginning of a steady decline as the full implications of higher costs and worsening relationships work through.My main worry when the referendum result was announced was not so much on economic grounds as on how the UK and Europe would see each other in future. When suggesting the idea of a United States of Europe, Churchill saw it as the best way of reducing the grounds for conflict after coming through two World Wars that started in Europe. For all its faults, Brussels provides a platform for governments with common interests in which the UK has had a say. Thatcher (and Blair) realised the importance of this but weak Cameron came on board too late and was no match for the hard right.Let's hope that when things start to go wrong, French people do not take it out on British ex-pats. History shows that foreigners are usually among the first targets.Brexiters - encouraged by the atrocious UK media - will of course blame Europe, in particular "the French". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 AZ, I like, and agree with your post. I thought the exact same things as you did.I was immensely saddened during the municipal and Euro elections that, for the first time since our arrival, we were unable to have any say and it just wasn't the same discussing politics after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisette Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 +1 for ANO and AZ's posts. But for anyone who regrets the loss of their limited rights to vote in France, and who is determined to continue to live here, I'd ask...'why didn't /don't you apply for French nationality? Unlike in some other european countries, France offers dual nationality for those who wish to retain a vestige of their original one. It isn't a complete solution, as we are branded with coded Social Security numbers, making clear that we're not natives, but it does show a level of committment to the country we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 I have taken double Nationality, in part for those reasons.I also feel less 'British' since my right to vote (including in the referendum) was taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 I feel less French everyday.Same shÏt just a different coloured flag.The British feeding the stranded lorry drivers warmed my heart. And my OH's heart.You would noy get that in France. So yeah......pick your nationality wisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTr@sh Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 I don't know either. When the Gilets Jaunes used to hold drivers up at roundabouts for hours, they used to walk up and down the lines of cars giving us chocolates ;-)I worry about you ALBF, you seem so stressed and unhappy recently, it can't be good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazandcol Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 ALBF I think you'll find it was the Sikh community, not the English, who fed the truck drivers:https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-55421924 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 I think you will find the Sikh community are English/British.Did any of the 300 k French folks living in the UK go and help ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 @ ETI'm fine.Brexit UK vs Macron France is doing my head in.It's the same. It"s the *****ing same.I wish peeps would get that into their head. I dread this year in France. It is going to be hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 ALBF, go out for a walk, enjoy the beauty of Nature, play with the kids and dont listen to the family, friends, neighbours etc bitchin.By the way, could we please not use the word ‘shit’ on the forum, not nice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTr@sh Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 ALBF I don't think you are fine.You are letting it do your head in. Stop. We all know that neither France nor the UK is perfect, and it's been a dreadful year all round. You are not the only one to have spotted this. But, dwelling on it and making yourself ill and getting into arguments, isn't constructive.Also, it makes no sense to blame French people for not taking it upon themselves to go out on Christmas Eve in the middle of a pandemic, to a place everybody has been told to avoid, to hand out a few pathetic sandwiches or whatever that they've managed to buy at supermarkets.Get a grip, ALBF, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou2 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Initially, it was the Sikh community helping with food, but then 15 pompiers & 10 secouristes went over (with 10k testing kits) to help the truckers who were stuck, as did a bunch of doctors from the Polish military, and then there was the German Ambassador, and no doubt more, all pitching in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 A situation purposely created by EU loving Macron.That is my point.@ Wolly°°ORY@ ETThe worlds population needs to make a stand.Covid was a good chance for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinBretagne Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 But ALBF if you want to give Macron the credit you have to accept that it must have been a good idea. It was so good in fact that the British government stole it a few hours later and banned flights from South Africa landing in the U.K. for the very same reason.You have to smile however when you realised that Macron as head of a sovereign country was able to control his borders within the EU framework. Thus proving one of the leave campaign’s best cards was a lie all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinBretagne Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Unable to delete duplicate post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 And of course the UK wasn't in the Schengen area anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 You are missing the point B&B.Macron used people (or lorry drivers rather in this case) as bargaining chips. You, me, others. In fact in most cases it was his own people.It was wrong on so many levels. He showed his true colours as a person.Macron is worse than Boris.....but not as bad as Trump.There is a special place in hell for these types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTr@sh Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 You are massively oversimplifying and overcomplicating at the same time.A border was closed to keep out the virus. That's absolutely the correct thing to do, and something the UK and other countries have failed to do quickly enough in the past.It's true that a minority paid a high price for keeping a majority safeIf the French border hadn't been closed, the virus variant would have crossed the border and spread itself all over mainland Europe. OK so in fact there were fewer than 50 cases, but nobody knew how many cases there would be and that's still too many.Arguably, it was the UK's bizarre handling of the diplomatic/PR aspect that led other countries to react. The sudden hype seemed designed to create shock and cause panic, and it did.I don't know why you are talking about bargaining chips. Bargaining over what? Brexit? How was stopping border traffic supposed to impact on the Brexit negotiations, at the stage they had reached when this blew up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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