crdale Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Never called it anything other than a sport.Don't know enough about the french situation to say anything specific bar that there are nearly 100 packs of fox hounds in the country, plus any english ones that spring up in the next few months.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 [quote user="crdale"]…Are you using a complicated way ofsaying that over hunting has wiped out the fox population? Chris[/quote] Not at all and it has not. You seemed to have missed (ormaybe not understood) my point. Irrespective as to one’s agreement or disagreement with hunting, theargument about “managing the countryside” and vermin control” is one that atbest is untrue and at worst shows how incapable those managing the hunting areat managing the countryside and its resources.Both vermin control, and countryside management arearguments put forward by the pro hunting lobby – though my rather long and dullpost illustrates (in simplified form anyway) that this is either anotheruntruth or those undertaking the work are incapable (or their techniquesflawed).If the “pro-hunting” lobby wishes to control vermin thenthey should stop captive breeding and releasing vermin that then need to becontrolled.If the pro-hunting lobby maintains that they are managingthe countryside, then the fact that there is a need to re-stock on an ongoingbasis shows that they are incapable of such management as their attempts havefailed. In this I am being generous andhave not suggested that they are actually “managing” for short term self-interest(i.e. enjoyment and profit from their sport.Personally I disagree with the type of hunting carried outin the UK as outlawed in the recent new laws – but that is personalopinion. What irritates me is thecontinuing untrue arguments and justifications being put forward by thepro-hunting lobby to try and overturn the new laws.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crdale Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 If the pro-hunting lobby maintains that they are managing the countryside, then the fact that there is a need to re-stock on an ongoing basis shows that they are incapable of such management as their attempts have failed. In this I am being generous and have not suggested that they are actually “managing” for short term self-interest (i.e. enjoyment and profit from their sport.Personally I disagree with the type of hunting carried out in the UK as outlawed in the recent new laws – but that is personal opinion. What irritates me is the continuing untrue arguments and justifications being put forward by the pro-hunting lobby to try and overturn the new laws.Ian There shouldn't be a need to restock I know there is no such need around here and in some livestock areas of the country it would damage relations with the farmers if it did take place where in the country are you referring to?What are the untrue arguments and justifications being put forward? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 [quoteuser="crdale"]Whatare the untrue arguments and justifications being put forward? Chris [/quote] There are many, some of which have been discussed throughhis thread – maybe read back through the thread. A classic example is the “need to control vermin” and yet captivebreed/release. The area of thecountryside I’m referring to is Oxfordshire and the captive breeding “centre”is in the Banbury area. I can only speak about areas where I have personalexperience and re-stocking the fox population does damage relations withfarmers. However, local hunt’s do notseem to care to much about this (in fact their attitude is that they could notcare less about anybody that does not fully agree and support whatever theychose to do). So they do it anyway,hunt anyway, generate all the negative feelings in the local community. However, most do not live in the localcommunity but visit from the towns so there are well clear of local “illfeeling”.It is such a attitude that probably helps those who wish itbanned and gives the pro-hunt people such a hard time to win any publicsupport. Were they to “court publicopinion” a bit then they might have more success, but arrogant attitudes andnot caring about the local/farming communities just alienates them fromeverybody.The village I used to live in Oxon is far from alone in havesuch a “local hunt”. Lived in Wiltshirefor a summer (working on a farm) and was forever being told horrendous storiesabout the local hunt by the local farmers (e.g. stampeding a herd of cows intobarbed wire fences (massive vet bills, etc.) yet hunt ignored what they haddone and just carried on with their “sport”.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crdale Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 [quote user="Deimos"] <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->There are many, some of which have been discussed through his thread – maybe read back through the thread. A classic example is the “need to control vermin” and yet captive breed/release. The area of the countryside I’m referring to is Oxfordshire and the captive breeding “centre” is in the Banbury area.<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->I can only speak about areas where I have personal experience and re-stocking the fox population does damage relations with farmers. However, local hunt’s do not seem to care to much about this (in fact their attitude is that they could not care less about anybody that does not fully agree and support whatever they chose to do). So they do it anyway, hunt anyway, generate all the negative feelings in the local community. However, most do not live in the local community but visit from the towns so there are well clear of local “ill feeling”.It is such a attitude that probably helps those who wish it banned and gives the pro-hunt people such a hard time to win any public support. Were they to “court public opinion” a bit then they might have more success, but arrogant attitudes and not caring about the local/farming communities just alienates them from everybody.<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->[/quote] Reading back through the thread I see some arguements for hunting are better than others but then I look at some of the twaddle and multiple untruths the antis come up with and as for the vermin arguement it is all relative if you live in an area where foxes take your livestock you might well consider them vermin. Not sure about captive breeding as I have never come across it before other than with thing such as pheasants and the like so I will not comment on that until I know more, however if the local farmers were so upset by this breeding program why did they not ban the hunt from their land, most of the people I hunted with were local to that area and so were happy to be considerate to others as they were living in the comunity they were hunting in.The most arrogant and abusive attitudes to be seen on hunting day were from the antis, but I will not start a my anti story is worse than your hunt story arguement. You are right about courting public opinion the antis do have a fairly easy time of it defending such a sweet looking creature however the hunting crowd have done allot of work on that front and many more national UK newspapers are somewhat more pro hunting than they once were. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 it is all relative if you live in an area where foxes take your livestock you might well consider them verminThe farmer might also consider his farming practices if this is a reguar occurence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crdale Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 "The farmer might also consider his farming practices if this is a reguar occurence." Better evacuate the sheep off the welsh mountains thenChris[&] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I think most hill farmers are quite canny enough to allow a % for loss due to nature, and the fox is less often to blame than might be thought.Some hill farmers often bring at risk animals down, or even in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 [quote user="crdale"]…,however if the local farmers were so upset by this breeding program why didthey not ban the hunt from their land, most of the people I hunted with werelocal to that area and so were happy to be considerate to others as theywere living in the comunity they were hunting in.The most arrogant and abusiveattitudes to be seen on hunting day were from the antis, but I will not start amy anti story is worse than your hunt story arguement. …Chris[/quote] That was not possible in those villages where I havelived. Two main reasons – leased landand even if a farmer owned the land and banned the hut they totally ignored it. They even go through people’s privategardens when it suited them.Local game keeper was once put in prison as whenthere were some protestors around he deliberately ran over one of their dogs onhis quad bike. Fortunately somebodyvideoed the incident, it all went to court and he was in prison for a year (Inever saw the video but must have been pretty black and white for a prisonsentence).Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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