Dick Smith Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Out of interest, how would you get rid of rats? Take them to the vet?Speak to them gently and persuade them of the error of their ways. Buy them a one-way ticket to the seaside. Sponsor them through college.Have any of you critics noticed what has happened in Burma in the last week? But then those are people, just people, aren't they. Not as nice as rodents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 That is such an old trap that I'm surprised you fell into in it Dick, caring about the fate of animals does not automatically exclude you from caring about anything else, be it disaster in Burma, the elderly or children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I know that very well. Very well. Except I think that they don't much care about people.What I am saying is that these disgusted posters are usually found sitting on their hands on humanitarian topics. In fact, on most topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Just supposition Dick, just supposition. People who care, care... about everything. Those who jump on to forums with nasty remarks are always the same ones, just waiting for a chance to have a go at someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Yeah, that's me...Perhaps you should take me to the vet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 With pleasure ! [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I imagine you would. I answer back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Sorry to ask but what exactly do these creatures do that is so unacceptable and is the destruction to a river bank any worse than Noddy boats with their wake, is it not possable to trap them both and relocate them down stream??I'm a sucker for a nice photo!! Lilly"Live and let live wasn't just a movie"[:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 http://www.francethisway.com/wildlife/ragondin.phphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coypu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 In my area, ragondins have been protected against hunting or poisoning for the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris pp Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I suppose I'll have to put the record straight once again.Ragondin / Coypu are an introduced species that do an immense amount of damage which affects other native species and also the natural filtration system whereby rainwater etc drains into rivers and lakes. The primary problem isn't so much the tunnels as the destruction of aquatic and bank side vegetation which puts many species at risk, including the Large copper butterfly which I have recently written about.It is permitted to trap them anywhere in France and at any time of year without authorization and without notifying you Mairie.I have nothing against them as creatures, they are all the same to me, (that includes humans), but they are in the wrong place and need to be controlled, if not eradicated, in France in a swift, humane and compassionate manner.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [quote user="Frenchie"]I know they are a menace to river banks and lakes, but I can't help thinking they were introduced in France by men ............................................................................. [6][/quote]Men make mistakes......... or hadn't you noticed? [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassis Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 Leaving them alone is not an option - a byelaw requires the ragondin traps to be set if they are seen on your property because of the damage they cause to the many local étangs when left to breed uncontrolled. They eventually undermine the dykes that retain the étang waters and drain the lake, as happened to someone from another area who contacted me last year to ask if I knew anyone who could rebuild their étang, which had disappeared overnight. Somebody suggested simply moving them downstream. Brilliant idea. Why didn't I think of that. Read this:http://etangs.ifrance.com/ragondin.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [quote user="SaligoBay"][quote user="Frenchie"] I know they are a menace to river banks and lakes, but I can't help thinking they were introduced in France by men ............................................................................. [6][/quote]Men make mistakes......... or hadn't you noticed? [:D] [/quote]All I notice is that once again man is responsible for what happens to him........ And ragondins now have to be exterminated.. They were not part of the wildlife in France. Some silly people introduced them here, and now we are quarelling about the most humane way to eradicate them..........Here in deux sèvres, I ve seen poisoned carrots left on the riverbanks by the authorities, a few years back, in the Marais Poitevin, now I don't know how they eradicate them, I'll ask a friend who lives there, where there are so many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassis Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 I'd be very interested to know anything useful you can find out, Frenchie.Just to recap, the ragondin catcher put the trap down a fortnight ago, toldme to check it daily and, if one was caught, to strike it through thebars with a metal spike to kill it. I thought no more aboutthis for a fortnight as daily checks revealed nothing in the trap. Imoved it to a new position by the stream the day before yesterday andwoke to find a raggy in the trap yesterday morning. Now faced with thepracticality of killing what turned out to be a largish, leaping, agilebeastie in a large cage, the impracticality of what had been proposedby the catcher struck me with some force. I remembered that someoneelse had suggested that their neighbour simply drowned them in thecage. Not sure about this option either, I posted on the forum - thepicture was a mistake, as it doesn't show the huge orange-yellow frontteeth and huge claws to best effect. Thereafter no better suggestionwas proposed than the drowning method. So drowning it was. Why anyoneshould think there was any pleasure to be had in killing the creature,by whatever method, is beyond me. Personally, I have no blood lust andused to be squeamish about emptying mousetraps until I came to live inthe countryside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [quote user="chris pp"]I suppose I'll have to put the record straight once again.Ragondin / Coypu are an introduced species that do an immense amount of damage which affects other native species and also the natural filtration system whereby rainwater etc drains into rivers and lakes. The primary problem isn't so much the tunnels as the destruction of aquatic and bank side vegetation which puts many species at risk, including the Large copper butterfly which I have recently written about.[/quote]Nothing like the Newbury bypass then...............................................[:)]I've got several families of coypu in my river bank. It is a real pleasure to stroll down and sit quietly watching their antics and in over five years of being here there is, as Chris has said, absolutely no further destruction of the river bank. Vegetation is not a problem here as its quite overgrown.I guess some people just don't get it................................but what a sad day it will be when 'man' has succeeded in destroying everything on this planet.IMHO of course, which, contrary to the belief of some, I am entitled to have. [:P]Leave the Moles alone................................................................................[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 The term euthanasia is derived from the Greek terms eu meaning good and thanatos meaning death. A “good death” would be one that occurs with minimalpain and distress. Euthanasia is the act of inducing humane death in an animal.It is the responsibility of Wildlife Control Operators to ensure that if an animal's lifeis to be taken, it is to be done with the highest degree of respect and with theemphasis on making the death as painless and distress free as possible.Euthanasia techniques should result in rapid loss of consciousness followed bycardiac or respiratory arrest and the ultimate loss of brain function. In additionthe technique should minimize distress and anxiety experienced by the animalprior to loss of consciousness.Drowning, freezing or using a vehicle to supply carbon monoxide are not acceptable methods ofeuthanizing any animal. http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/license_permits_apps/docs/WCO_Training_Manual.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Reading through this thread from yesterday afternoon I can't help wondering how many of you are still talking to, having aperos with and eating meals with your neighbours after you've seen yesterday's pregnant cat isn't so today, but can't see any kittens around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Lets face it, if coypu had any real commercial value, they would be protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassis Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 Thanks for the link, Christine. However, I'm not sure whether the rules for licensed pest controllers in Oregon are more relevant in this case than the Victoria State authorities ruling on the destruction of cane toads. At least I read it.http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/features/RuralRevolution/asp/070723coypu.aspxhttp://www.issg.org/database/species/ecology.asp?fr=1&si=99http://etangs.ifrance.com/ragondin.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Benjamin - I think I can guess what you are implying. But when a cat has kittens you won't see them for a few weeks anyway. She will have chosen a secure spot to leave them, and ventures out herself soon after the birth, for food etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Toadstool Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I had always thought that drowning was meant to be one of the least painful ways to die along with carbon monoxide inhalation (gassing yourself with your car exhaust) and hypothermia.Doing a quick scan on google I have found 3 accounts from people who nearly died drowning and it doesn't seem that bad! Much better than being burned at the stake or staked with a nasty pointed stick or being poisoned (can be extremely painful). Here are 3 accounts FYI:Havingnearly drowned once the little I can add is that it didn't hurt. From what Isee on tv it's horrific. But when it was actually happening to me, I refused tobreathe and blacked out, underwater, in the ocean. When I came to I was on thedry ground having CPR done. I do not have any memory of pain. I almost drowned when I was a kid and I can say that was not asbad as you imagine. I remember being underwater, the peace and tranquility andI felt I didn't want anyone to get me out of the water. Ialmost died drowning once. I can tell you that it is very unpleasant at first,you're really panicky, obviously, and it's painful not to breath. It's notquite like any other pain, though, it's like... irritating, too, like when youtry not to swallow but your body wants you to. It's achy. But after a while,you start to give up, and it stops hurting. You feel kind of at peace. Yourbrain has so little oxygen that you stop panicking, and you kind of relax,until you pass out. That's when I was rescued, obviously. And usually when youpass out from lack of oxygen, you start breathing even though you'reunconcious, but when you're under water, you obviously can't, so you die.Pix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Hey Soz,You really should have expected the flak [:(] but good for you anyway. ( now I will share the flak I expect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 [quote user="Patf"]Benjamin - I think I can guess what you are implying. [/quote]That's my problem, too subtle by half. [:D]Just to be a bit more specific; rural French families get rid of unwanted kittens by drowning them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Ours don't.The cats are semi-feral, and are encouraged - a little - to keep down the vermin. The kittens are born in the outbuidings (ours, by the look of it) and grow up (or not) pretty naturally. Which means a low survival rate. We seem to have a new set of cats each time we go out.What I don't understand is that, from the evidence, the cats mostly live on local birdlife, often pigeons, so the benefit to the farmers must be pretty marginal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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