tontine clause

[biffo]

i am wondering if anyone can help me as i also have a very good friend who has bought a house in france some years ago, however when they bought the house they decided to put a tontine on it.

they are now very concerned as they are unfortunatley not together any more and wonder if there is a way to take the clause off the deeds without buying the other out.

they have not seen each other for about 2 years and the split was not a good one.

thanks in advance.

[nectarine]

When we took out a tontine clause it was explained to us that this could only be 'reversed' by a notaire and that one ofthe parties has to buy the other one out in order to gain full ownership.  Whether this means that the actual sale price has to change hands, or a token amount, ... I'm not sure about.  But I urge you to see the notaire, if possible the one that you bought this from, as the tontine clause has tax implications if you are not married to your co-owner.  Good luck.

[giantpanda]

Hi!

Independant of the tontine clause, you are in indivision.

So you can not sell the house, without the consent of the other.

You can not even rent or make current repairs, unless you have more than 66%.

Who pays the taxes??

So you do need to find a solution to the question?

Either one buys, or the house is sold.

One wants to sell the other not, then the sales can be forced - but for that the person would have to go to court, and the judge's decision is open.It can last at least 2 years.

Youers,

giantpanda

If one dies, the possible application of the tontine clause ( there are conditions ) would certainly not be what the other would want.

[pachapapa]

A word of caution, anything not recently updated may not reflect the current legal position and in particular with regard to the rights of administration of a property in indivision. The 2/3 proprietary right refers to the property right and not 2/3 of the persons enjoying a right of indivision. So if two people "own" half the property an inconclusive and fractious situation is likely.

There are 3 "Actes" to consider.

• Actes de conservation : chaque indivisaire peut l'effectuer seul.
• Actes d'administration : règle des 2/3 des droits indivis (et non 2/3 des personnes).
• Actes de disposition : règle de l'unanimité.

Note that an Act of Conservation can be done by one party to the indivision; basically allows the condition and value of the property to be preserved and thus benefitting all parties.

As for the act of disposition it requires unanimity, BUT Art 815 Code Civil affords a "let-out" to the constraint of a state of indivision; not sure about the 2 years mentioned above other than that the court itself is constrained to delaying the disposal of the property up to a maximum of 2 years, with good cause.

French Forums are replete with threads on "depacsing" couples passing through the indivision gateway.[:)]