Compromis de Vente question

[brodie19]

I am about to purchase a property in France.

It will be a joint purchase with my wife. We have no children and have wills in the UK that leave each other everything.

It has been suggested that we purchase this property "en tontine". I am presuming this is good advice.

More importantly, do both of us have to sign the compromis de vente, or can one do it as the other will have to be in the UK at the same time.

Can anyone advise on this please?

[woolybanana]

ask the notaire, perhaps?

[Sunday Driver]

Purchasing en tontine has certain tax disadvantages in the case of inheritance.  You may want to consider discussing with your notaire whether modifying your marriage status to 'communautaire universelle' would be more appropriate in your circumstances.

The compromis has to be signed by both parties, so if one of you can't make it on the day, then you should set up a proxy arrangement in advance - usually the notaire's clerk will act as a stand-in.

 

 

[Danny]

Hello,

Good luck with your new house!

Speak to your notaire about signing a donation entre epoux - I'm not a legal expert but I think it's what you need. Your UK wills count for nothing as far as French property is concerned, I believe. A donation entre epoux is useful if you have parents/sisters/brothers and you want to cut down on a load of paperwork should something happen to one of you.

Signing the compromis can be done by post, no problem. The notaire can send two copies via regisitered post, and you send one back the same way. Normally you need to send a signed copy of a passport as proof of identity, and you will need to provide full names, addresses, dates of birth, nationality, dates and places of current and any previous marriages (and if applicable previous spouses' names and place/date of divorce).You either need to be there for the acte de vente, or sign a 'procuration' giving the notaire (or the clerk) power to sign for you. Normally a procuration can be dealt with by post too. I don't think your other half can sign for you, but I might be wrong.

Hope that helps,

Jane 

[Judith]

I thought the problem of taxes and en tontine had been solved in the Sarkozy change to inheritance between husband and wife a couple of years ago?  Of was it inheritance further down the line you were thinking of??  Must admit that we decided on en tontine in spite of the then tax disadvantages simply to ensure that the survivor would have somewere to live.  Seemed more important than the taxes to be paid.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Judith"]I thought the problem of taxes and en tontine had been solved in the Sarkozy change to inheritance between husband and wife a couple of years ago?  Of was it inheritance further down the line you were thinking of??  Must admit that we decided on en tontine in spite of the then tax disadvantages simply to ensure that the survivor would have somewere to live.  Seemed more important than the taxes to be paid.

[/quote]

Hi,

      As far as I can see there are no disadvantages to the tontine which do not also apply equally to the "universel" , and  in both cases these are only in connection with the survivor's succession. Where there are no children both are excellent , provided neither party is bothered too much about the fate of their (possibly distant) heirs.

   " Donation entre epoux" is not relevant where there are no descendants in the direct line on either side.

[Judith]

[quote user="parsnips"]

Hi,

      As far as I can see there are no disadvantages to the tontine which do not also apply equally to the "universel" , and  in both cases these are only in connection with the survivor's succession. Where there are no children both are excellent , provided neither party is bothered too much about the fate of their (possibly distant) heirs.

   " Donation entre epoux" is not relevant where there are no descendants in the direct line on either side.

[/quote]

And if there is one child of previous marriage who it is not wished should inherit??  Any sensible, easy solution??  That's why we went for the tontine, as the easiest way to ensure a house to live in .....  I'm not sure I understand what was being discussed in the posts above this.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Judith"][quote user="parsnips"]

Hi,

      As far as I can see there are no disadvantages to the tontine which do not also apply equally to the "universel" , and  in both cases these are only in connection with the survivor's succession. Where there are no children both are excellent , provided neither party is bothered too much about the fate of their (possibly distant) heirs.

   " Donation entre epoux" is not relevant where there are no descendants in the direct line on either side.

[/quote]

And if there is one child of previous marriage who it is not wished should inherit??  Any sensible, easy solution??  That's why we went for the tontine, as the easiest way to ensure a house to live in .....  I'm not sure I understand what was being discussed in the posts above this.

[/quote]

Hi,

        If there is only one child , of one of the partners in the tontine, that child will lose all its inheritance rights in the house IF its parent dies first.  If the survivor is the parent,  then they will have the house in full ownership but if they die french resident, their only child will , in the absence of any inheritance planning, inherit all their estate.  In this case the survivor is free to dispose of 1/2 of his/her estate as they wish by TESTAMENT, but should bear in mind that if they are french resident at the time they die , anything left to distant ,or non-, relations will be very heavily taxed. There is no way a parent can totally disinherit a child while french resident, but this has no detrimental effect  on the parent's enjoyment of the house or the rest of his/her assets while still living.        If they wish to benefit non-, or distant relations , and they have other assets than the house they can use french life assurance plans to leave up to 152 000€ to each beneficiary, without inheritance tax, regardless of the degree of relationship.

     The other posts deal with different situations -everybody has different wishes and there are numerous ways to try to satisfy them.

[Judie]

Parsnips, I've tried to email you, but the email was sent back. Have now pm'd you.

[Judith]

Parsnips, Thanks. 

Much of that I already knew, but you have confirmed what I thought. We can't actuallly find a solution which leaves our estate as it is left in our E wills whilst we remain in France, unless we put as much as we can into AV, so at least the we can go some way to redressing the stupidity.  One day, perhaps, France will wake up to the situation where people do not always have children, or indeed, many relatives to whom they could leave their estate etc and make sensible allowances for that!!

[parsnips]

[quote user="Judith"]Parsnips, Thanks. 

Much of that I already knew, but you have confirmed what I thought. We can't actuallly find a solution which leaves our estate as it is left in our E wills whilst we remain in France, unless we put as much as we can into AV, so at least the we can go some way to redressing the stupidity.  One day, perhaps, France will wake up to the situation where people do not always have children, or indeed, many relatives to whom they could leave their estate etc and make sensible allowances for that!!

[/quote]

Hi,

 There is in fact a national organisation which campaigns for better treatment for such people. I can't recall its name, but you can probably google it.