Whats happening with my planer?

[Chancer]

I am currently making kitchen trims and a banquette seat for a French friend, we were given the timber by our local builders merchants, they have a huge scrap pile, I chose the oldest and most stable with where possible the best conversion from the trunk as my father and granfather tought me.

It is only rough sawn "bois de charpente" intended for bastaings etc, and probably fast grown.

On most, but not all sections when I put it through the planer it comes out with a smooth but undulating surface across the longitudinal grain, a bit like old weathered wood or even the "aged" wood they now sell for chalet renovations which has been textured with flailing rods and then acid patinated.

At first I thought my blades were dull but I still get an incredible finish on oak, hardwoods and the UK sourced pine that I have remaining.

Any ideas?

[powerdesal]

Does putting on a very light cut make any difference?

[Dick Smith]

Could it just be planer ripple? As Steve asked, is it on a light or a heavy cut?

[Jonzjob]

I agree with both above. Also you may be feeding the wood a little too fast? Try a light cut with a slow feed and make sure the blades are razor sharp...

Good luck.

[Chancer]

Can't alter the feed, it is a planer/thicknesser with drive rollers, the problem occurs with both fine and medium cuts in either direction but not on hardwoods or pine that I have brought over with me.

I have a prewar overhand planer back in England so maybe I may get the chance to try a sample on that later in the year but for now I am baffled.

The only other thing that has come to mind is that the timbers are quite old and well dried, also they are from the centre of the tree so may be tha faster growing layers.

It is almost like there are alternate layers that plane flat and the others spring back proud but with equally good surface finish. I have never seen anything quite like it except for very old exposed planed pine.

Editted:

Not planer ripple it occurs across the longitudinal length i.e across the planer blades.

[Dave&Olive]

hi

    ok it`s not dry , in a sence that ...........are you getting a sap build up behind the cutters and a sap build up on the spiked feed roller ??

   Dave

[Jonzjob]

It may be a silly idea, but have you thought of going back to basics and using a hand plane? sA moothing plane on it after you have got the rough bits down to a near finish. A long plane like that would get rid of anything like the ripples you have. I love using hand planes... In my opinion they leave a much better finish. But still make sure the iron is razor sharp and you plane with the grain. Sorry if it's grannies and eggs?

[Chancer]

My jointing plane is here but my smoothing plane is in the UK.

I too like to use my handed down hand tools, but this work is for someone else who has just crossed the threshold of asking a little too much in the way of favours (to be fair it's his partner who in turn probably has no idea of the time involved).

So I dont want to spend  a lot of time on hand finishing, until now I have left him to sand the finish but I was somewhat demoralised to see what had become of my work after him attacking it with a belt sander, oh how I hate those things, yes they have their place but usually are abused.

[Dick Smith]

We were discussing this last evening, the question of people who have no idea of the trouble/expense they put you to. Our classic examples were my son, who photographed a friend's wedding and was offered a tenner (going rate about a grand, film costs alone £60) or me (a full day's training of a complete primary school staff) a bottle of wine worth €8 - going rate £600+. We decided you have to be very clear about the costs of time, equipment, knowledge and expertise, materials and so on. You may not charge, but people need to know what the favour costs you.

Julie gets this all the time - "I'm not paying that for some painted wood, I'll make it myself" - yes, well that will be £300 for the saw, £100 for assorted equipment, then the cost of stock, paint, brushes - oh, and do you have the talent?

Belt sanders do have their uses, but as I don't ever do anything very heavyweight mine is just an ornament. I've been thinking about what I want to put into my French workshop (if and when it happens) and the belt sander was an item I decided against in no time flat. If I need any heavy sanding done (including floors) I have several Bosch PEX jobs that do it even better. They don't last, though...

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]We were discussing this last evening, the question of people who have no idea of the trouble/expense they put you to. Our classic examples were my son, who photographed a friend's wedding and was offered a tenner (going rate about a grand, film costs alone £60)

[/quote]

I once spent hours at the end of a runway taking shots of Hunters taking off / landing as a favour to an aquaintance who was into painting. He is now quite a renowned aviation artist but he didn't even give me a new film! I recognise a couple of his paintings as being based on my photos, I dont begrudge his success but at the time I thought " you tight b*****d"

[Chris Head]

What's the thing with belt sanders? I don't understand.

Bosch PEX? Never heard of it, perhaps one needs to get out a bit more!

[Dick Smith]

It's a big sander in workshop terms, does well on large timbers, but not meaty enough for your stuff - you need a belt sander. The only time I think I really needed mine was flattening some oak boards I had biscuited together.

[Jonzjob]

Bosch Pex is a small, 125mm, orbital sander, 30 quids worth. Don't know what they are like. What is wrong with belt sanders, about the same as is wrong with anything that isn't used properly. Used correctly they can be a real boon. I had to resurface a 4 foot dia pine table after it had gone through 25 years of family use and the belt sander was brilliant. My random orbit sander would have taken weeks of hard work.Cruelty to belt sanders must be stopped, that's wot I say [8-)].

Dick have a look at http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk/laymar_crafts-links.htm . There is a bit on bees wax on the 'finishing' pages. I have to look at a lot more of it yet.

Bit for you too Chris [:D], A "wealth of Information on, how to & how not to, Dry Wood"? And "Chainsaw use & abuse with useful information on Tree Felling" [6][B]

[Dick Smith]

Mine are PEX 400, 400W things with 125mm discs. Very good sander. Julie has broken 2...

[Chris Head]

I'm still not sure about the anti belt sander stuff...they sand wood smooth, isn't that the aim?

So what does a sterling250 random orbit sander do that those Bosch thingys dont?

Cheers for the link JJ, if ever I get round to felling a tree I'll have the print out to hand.

Who stole an hour from us? I'm peeved.

[Dick Smith]

First question - they are OK for roughing out, but often (in my experience) leave the surface in a mess. More serious on softwoods. Good for a bit of shaping, rounding corners etc.

What a £250 sander does better - no idea, nothing I imagine. Like paying for Festool - what do you get for your money that makes it 3 times better?

[Chris Head]

I just don't agree with the anti belt sander stuff. I get silky smooth finishing going through three grades, perhaps it's a tradition vs technology thing? I dunno. I'm not that hung up on finishing though, I think that lovely timber can be finished to such a high degree that it almost ceases to become wood. To me, it's like folk who feel inadequate about creation hide behind finishing, thinking that surfaces without flaws are greater than the sum of the parts.

No criticisms intended....just exploration.

[Dick Smith]

To be fair I've never used a belt sander for finishing. I prefer something a bit lighter.

[bejay]

[quote user="J.R."]

It is almost like there are alternate layers that plane flat and the others spring back proud but with equally good surface finish. I have never seen anything quite like it except for very old exposed planed pine.

[/quote]

J.R.

I think you may well have answered your own question.. It sounds like low grade european whitewood where the early growth is very soft. Blades need to be extremely sharp to get any sort of finish on very soft timbers for exactly the reasons you describe above.

bj

[Deimos]

I use a belt sander quite a bit for smoothing soft wood and generally get a good finish (only needs a light finish with an orbital - or nothing if it is to be painted). I think they are useful tools and mine gets used a fair amount 9when appropriate). Its only a cheap Ryobi modem but 100mm wide.

Re: the original post/question. I have seen longitudinal troughs when hand planing softwoods. However, this is when using an electric hand planer set to cut deep (a lot) and with very blunt blades. I have a manky old hand electric planer I use to rough down wood (sometimes) and this can sometimes rip out some bits of softer wood along the grain. However, they do look like bits of the grain have been ripped-out. Generally about 1 or 2 mm wide and up to a couple of cm long. When it happens I get quite a few side by side (e.g. 1mm wide bit ripped-out, then 1 mm OK, then 1mm ripped-out, etc.). Its like its ripping out the softer bits and leaving the harder bits of the wood (growth rings).

Ian

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

I and the hand plane have never really got on. Maybe it was the bluntness of the blade or it was set too deep or at the wrong angle, but all mine (2) are rusting in a box somewhere ( I never bin anything!).

My life has been transformed by the electric planer.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]We were discussing this last evening, the question of people who have no idea of the trouble/expense they put you to. [/quote]

I have my methods Dick

I have a large whiteboard where I have peoples names together with the hours I have spent and any tools that they have borrowed, its quite amazing whenever anyone comes in to the workshop they are drawn like magic to their name, they usually don't say anything but the point registers.

The guy (actually his partner) that is pushing it a bit I asked recently to help me for a day, and I showed the hours deducted from his total, if I get to do this often he will soon tell her to stop asking him to make things that he cant but I can if you follow!

The only real problem that I have had is with a neighbour, to be fair I borrowed his welder twice when I arrived as my trailer broke it.s back and my many welders were in the UK, working on my old principle from my apprenticeship that if you need to ask more than twice to borrow something then you need to buy one (and always return stuff in better condition than borrowed). I went out and bought a nice littel inverter welder.

He was very impressed with it and promptly borrowed it, no problem except for it took me a year to get it back, I asked repeatedly (he wasn't using it) and he said it was always in his cave if I needed it! I finally explained firmly that he should return it and despite his best efforts (It had been on the floor of his very dirty cellar workshop) at cleaning it was covered in overspray and grinding dust and generally in a terrible state. Ok it still works but I returned his one in better condition than it had been in 20 years, in the past I have bought new tools for neighbours rather than return something that I had accidentally damaged.

This neighbour was also put out when I refused to ask another friend if he could borrow his "leve-plaque", he said "I will pay" and I had to explain that money was not the problem. I should add that he is a skilled man working for Airbus opposite me for 30 years.

Back to belt sanders, I agree that they are great for improving the finish of sawn and chainsawed work but if used on planed wood can easily leave grooves or take off the edges.

[Chris Head]

I think it was my Grandfather who first told me 'Neither a lender nor a borrower be'....I'm sure that's an oldie that still has value.

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

  now the sanders have been put too bed .. are you getting a sap build up??

a question from my first post

                Dave

[Chancer]

I will have a good look when I have the time to dismantle it, I can't see any and dont get the problem on hardwoods or pine that I brought from England.