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Going rate for tiler?


Hev&Jon

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Hi, I'm a tiler living in the Aveyron and have been offered some work by a guy who runs a plumbing enterprise.  Can anybody give me an idea of what the going rate per metre is for ceramic tiling?  The work will generally be bathroom walls and floors.

Thanks in advance.

Jon.

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As you will be an employee and not the patron who pays all the charges, you should expect to be paid a minimum of 25€/hour which is the going rate for a labourer that we paid previously. If your boss pays more, then fine but his charges will be higher and he may not be able to afford that. Your coefficient and experience niveau will also give a basic compulsory wage which his accountant should have listed for this trade.
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[quote user="Mel Prett"]

Hi Val, Isn't that the rate as a self employed person who has to pay their own charges?

Mel

[/quote]

I'd have thought so. More likely is SMIC plus a bit (certainly applies to all the employees I know in this field - no tilers, tho'). Val is an employer, so she may know better! (Or be overpaying!)

 

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Sorry folks big boob there. Yes it would be the SMIC plus whatever coefficient the employee is graded under. I was stating the rate that we have to charge for a labourer in our bills to cover the charges. Must have been the two glasses of wine I was downing.  SMIC is currently 8,27€/hour
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Heath wouldn't the poster want to know what they would be earning. Surely if they were sub contracting then they would have all their cotisations to pay from that amount.

I'm not sure how a sub contracter would work either, aren't they just someone self employed?

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Yes, I think if one tradesman was working with another doing a different, but related, trade, like tiling after a bathroom or kitchen has been installed, then it would certainly be on a sub-contract basis. So the tiler would have to be a registered self-employed tradesman, and pay cotisations, provide equipment etc. On that basis I think 25€ to 30€ per hour would be about what you would need to be paid in order to clear 8-10€ after cotisations, taxes, costs and overheads etc.

 

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[quote user="verviale"]I would have thought like the U.K. a tiler would be paid by the metre, otherwise you could work as slow as you like, I have never heard of a tiler being paid by the hour, however site work is often on a day rate.[/quote]

All the Artisans I know (as I say above, I don't know any tilers), work on a devis or fixed price for the job - that would be the norm here.

So the OP could always pretend & get a couple or 3 quotes. Aim to earn about 35€ per hour - before the dreaded charges.

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Another point to remember is that if you are an artisan ( in the building trade)  and subcontracting work from another company, you have to charge the job out to the main contractor at the full 19.6% rate, and not the reduced rate of 5.5%, even if the main scope of works falls under the 5.5% rules.

If he has asked you to do some tiling then surely he just wants a fixed price Devis from you? You could give him a Devis either per metre squared, for the job as a whole, or on an hourly basis. If the latter, and if you are a registered artisan paying cotisations, you should not be below 30 euros per hour if you want to survive the future years charges! If you have an accountant, he/she should advise you on what you should be charging per hour, to be cost effective.

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  How do you arrive at the hourly rate?

Assuming 35 hours a week @ 30e per hour = 1,050   if I want to reduce my hourly rate to say 21e per hour but am willing to work 50 hours per week, 50 x 21 = 1,050 could I do this and still earn enough to pay cotisations etc;? I am serious, because I plan to do a lot of work for a close friend who I want to charge the minimum, but As I will br registering I need to earn enough to pay the cotisations.

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I run a building company here in France and My employees work a 39 hour week which is the maximum currently allowed in the construction industry. However as the "boss" I work on average at least 65 hours or more per week, much of which is spent driving, organising and the dreaded administrative side of things. There are no restrictions for the hours works as a patron. In terms of social protection, cotisation charges and general business, I've always thought that self employed people here get a much worse deal than employees- almost the opposite to the UK system.

Unless you have a "right hand man" to help you, it is unlikely that you will actually get anything near 50 hours of productive work at this rate in a week. In reality, sourcing your materials, travelling time, opening hours, & French bureaucracy, will all eat into your productive time and if you intend to survive years two, three, and four as an artisan, you will would be best to check your rates and put some aside for the bills which, believe me will arrive fast and furious. Don't forget also that cotisations and charges are continuous, quite often have to be paid by prélèvement automatique, and don't stop when times are lean and you have less or no work. En gros, you can kiss goodbye to around 50% of what you bring in.

There is a book my accountant has with hourly rates for trades and I have no idea how they are worked out, but it is very complicated, so please think ahead to the future rather than this one job. 

 

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Paul is spot on regarding the patron working all the hours he can just to stay inbusiness. My OH works 6 days per week all year and often sundays as well if the site is not inhabited or the client dosn't mind. You have to get the work done to get the money in to pay the non-stop bills which as Paul says, leaves very little personally once everything is paid up. We work harder and longer in France and earn less than half we did int he UK but it was our choice and although difficult,we do have a good family life and would never go back there now after all this time.
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The fundamental problem for those running building companies (in the UK or France) is that they have usually quoted a fixed price to the customer and they pay their employees on an hourly rate. If the work is not completed in the time allowed it doesn't take very long for all the profit to be swallowed up and the job starts to run at a loss (boss paying out of his own pocket for the sake of his companies reputation).

In the UK it is more common to use subbies working on a price, however, in France salaried employees are more normal and because the charges are so high the margins are smaller so it is much easier to get into this loss making situation. Depending on the number of employees and hence the turnover of the business, the boss is bogged down with admin, trying to keep the materials flowing on the various sites and trying to get more work in so has little time to get stuck in himself, but still finds himself working 60-70 hours a week.

In my opinion, the best way to operate in the building trade in France (assuming you're very good at what you do and have no trouble getting work) is to work on your own or with maximum one employee. Take on work until it is coming out of your ears (as the French do) but don't make any outrageous promises that you can't keep. If you fall behind with your schedule just be honest with your customers and 9 times out of 10, if the quality of your work speaks for itself, they'll be very understanding about it - I am talking about French custmers here, the Brits tend to get all fluffed up in the same way that they do when the local shop closes for 2 hours for lunch.

 

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