Sprogster Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 According to a thread on another French Expat Forum, the UK government have gone out to consultation about stopping issuing S1's for early retirees from April next year. Apparently, the entitlement of early retirees to an S1 is unique to the UK and not an EU requirement and stopping this will save the UK government money.If this comes into effect, it means UK early retirees moving to France will need private health insurance from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 But they dont anyway, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I didn't think the UK govt issues S1s to anybody who wasn't receiving the State pension, so are early retirees those who have left work and are living on their own means, or on private pensions? I'm on my husband's S1 (not yet State pension age) but receiving a private pension. More details please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 consultations.dh.gov.uk/overseas-healthcare/migrant_access/supporting_documents/Sustaining%20services%20ensuring%20fairness%20consultation%20document.pdfSee page 48 section 6.8We propose to stop issuing residual S1 forms from 1 April 2014.Current Process6.8. The UK issues form S1 for non-state pensioners, outside the requirements of the Regulations. This process is applicable to UK nationals, who are not in paid employment, and are residing in another EEA member state. The form was introduced in 1982, primarily to provide healthcare cover for early-retirees, allowing them time to integrate into their new country of residence. It provides them with health cover for up to 2.5 years. 6.9. Forecasts indicate that the UK pays out around £4 million a year in relation to citizens in receipt of a residual S1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 There is an overview here. Links to the documents are at the bottom.http://consultations.dh.gov.uk/overseas-healthcare/migrant_accessToo late to make any contributions, the consultation ran only from July 3rd until September 8th this year![:(]The part referring to early retirees and S1 issue is on page 48.Some of the information is quite startling, such as, on page 5 :- the NHS struggles to identify and recover the cost from those not entitled to free treatment Page 40 gives some of the reasons hospitals don't chase payment from people who should be paying; I was surprised this is still the case.We offered to pay for for an urgent operation while on leave in the UK in 1978, as we had very comprehensive health insurance through my overseas employer.The hospital admin. refused this, saying it was simpler for them if the NHS paid. They also suggested we might be offering this in order to "jump the queue", which was definitely not the case.I suppose the free treatment was justified in that it was an emergency, but I felt they should have accepted payment when it was offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I've always tried convincing myself that old age has many compensations. Perhaps I have found one at last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Just for info - S1's are also issued to those who work in the UK (PAYE) but live in France - effectively a transfer of benefits with the UK picking up the tab. I received S1's from the UK for 9 years whilst living in France. Same happens the other way round for people working in France but living in the UK - France issues their S1's.nectarine - be interested to know how your husband qualifies for an S1 issued by the UK -is he still working and/or contributing in the UK OR is it a residual S1 issued following your exit from the UK? An S1 would not be issued solely on the basis of being in receipt of a private pension......Chiefluvvie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 It would be better if the S1 system stopped completely and people paid into the Health system of the country where they live as nationals of that country do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 That would be lovely NormanH - just so long as the country where you work is happy for you to pay all your employment taxes and contributions in the country where you live. Current EU legislation requires you to pay where you earn.There are hundreds of thousands of people who live in one country and work (or are based) in another.Chiefluvvie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I pay taxes in both, but the country where I pay the most doesn't pay for my health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Jobs in more than one country NormanH? How very modern....:-)Chiefluvvie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Norman sees himself as a victim of an injustice, which is the price of being a refugee from justice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 [quote user="Chiefluvvie"]nectarine - be interested to know how your husband qualifies for an S1 issued by the UK -is he still working and/or contributing in the UK OR is it a residual S1 issued following your exit from the UK? An S1 would not be issued solely on the basis of being in receipt of a private pension......Chiefluvvie[/quote]Husband is over retirement age and was already when we left the UK. I am a child bride!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 As a matter of curiosity, can child brides like nectarine continue to "piggy-back" on the S1 of their husbands as formerly?Me, I have attained my age certificate and can qualify under my own age![:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Unless something has changed in the last 15 months ................. yes.I was a 'dependent' under (so to speak) Mrs G for 5 yrs until 6/12. I then received an S1 in my own right.BTW, that mucked things up good and proper because after 12mths I was told that my CV couldn't be 'mise a jour'. My own fault: I should have sent off the form that arrived in the post for a brand new CV. So now I've had to surrender it (its OK, I've been given an attestation) and after nearly three months, I'm still waiting for the 'send this form off with a pic for your new CV' document.It'll turn up eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 [quote user="Chiefluvvie"]for people working in France but living in the UK - France issues their S1's.[/quote]The NHS is a residency based system so what need would a French person living in UK have for an S1 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 But we are an english couple living in England and we have to have a french S1. As the french were so tardy in sending it, we started to get calls from Newcastle on a regular basis demanding that we get it from the french. And that is how the system works, with regards to us[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 According to the NHS web site:Exemption category: exempt from all NHS hospital treatment charges Expand the category and it says:Anyone taking up, or resuming, permanent residence in the UK. You must have the right to live here permanently, or a route to settlement allowing permanent residence in time. You may be asked to show how you have emigrated to the UK Also from the archive of an earlier version of the site (May 2012)Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. “Ordinarily resident” is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.On what basis are they asking for an S1 then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Doctor Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I think AnOther is right. All EU citizens legally resident in the UK have entitlement to free and full NHS care from the day they arrive. A passport and proof of address would be all that is needed to get immediate care and then NHS registration. I think it is only the UK and Austria which base entitlement solely on residency. The only reason I can think of for the S1 that idun has to submit would be for the NHS somewhere down the line to bill the French, but with or without it idun is entitled to free NHS care for as long as she needs it.Aside from the (perhaps) unnecessary generosity of the UK government in respect of NHS care based on residency, and even though I have benefitted from a residual S1 since moving to France, it does seem in itself to be overgenerous. What should happen is that any EU citizen taking up residence in another EU country should have immediate access to the state health system and immediately begin paying towards it. That seems intuitively right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What should happen is that any EU citizen taking up residence in another EU country should have immediate access to the state health system and immediately begin paying towards it. That seems intuitively right to me. I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 When we moved back in 2008, we had to hand over initially an E106 which then became and S1. Later we had to hand over an E121 now S1. French income /UK residents. And that is why we have to have a CEAM rather than an EHIC. And as we still pay cotisations in France, then the french should pay for our health care.Believe me when the french didn't come up with the E121(S1) Newcastle was regularly in contact with us demanding that we get it.Yes, in our case everything is being done properly. And if I could be bothered to look it is on the web. [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 When we moved back in 2008, we had to hand over initially an E106 which then became and S1. Later we had to hand over an E121 now S1. French income /UK residents. And that is why we have to have a CEAM rather than an EHIC. And as we still pay cotisations in France, then the french should pay for our health care.Believe me when the french didn't come up with the E121(S1) Newcastle was regularly in contact with us demanding that we get it.Yes, in our case everything is being done properly. And if I could be bothered to look it is all on the web. [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 [quote user="Daft Doctor"]What should happen is that any EU citizen taking up residence in another EU country should have immediate access to the state health system and immediately begin paying towards it.[/quote]I agree completely, that is totally in the spirit of the EU and free movement, however the problem is that every member state has it's own financial model and system for the provision of health care all I believe inferior to the NHS which, being free for residents at the point of delivery, is unquestionably the gold standard to which all others should aspire but few if any could afford to.Since the likelihood of the NHS dumbing down and degrading to meet other members lower standards I see absolutely no possibility whatsoever of anything even approaching harmonisation in the foreseeble future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 " the NHS which, being free for residents at the point of delivery, is unquestionably the gold standard to which all others should aspire but few if any could afford to."Only trouble being that the NHS can't afford it either, if what you read in the papers about filthy hospitals and too few nurses and morale problems amongst NHS staff is anything to go by. And, a lot of people in the UK opt to go private for that reason, so they are paying into the NHS and not even using the service.I would base my gold standard on quality of care, not on making it free at the point of delivery. I don't even see this as a particular virtue, because people tend to value a thing more if they have paid something towards it. It's bad psychology to make people think that medical care comes for free, so no worries about wasting your doctor's time, it costs nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 [quote user="Daft Doctor"]What should happen is that any EU citizen taking up residence in another EU country should have immediate access to the state health system and immediately begin paying towards it. That seems intuitively right to me. [/quote] Intuitively it sound right - but it is wrong at so many levels. If you take the "large" number of (pre-)retirees who emigrate to place like France and Spain, are we saying that these countries should become immediately responsible for their health care - even though they have contributed not one cent to their respective new home countries. Further, if on relatively low incomes they may continue to contribute at a minimal level - if at all. What a perfect way for countries to get rid of their obligations to the old. Offer them very poor conditions for staying at home, but if the emigrate they get free health care on someone else's account. So persuade them to leave. In Germany, where 100% health insurance is demanded it would encourage the entire aged population to leave. And that is why Idun has to provide an S1 from France to the UK - which intuitively sound even more wrong than most cases. Having spent a large part of the working life in France and paying contributions there, it is the French that cough up. I would be all for a unified system across Europe - but that would require a harmonised system of payment and levels of healthcare. At the moment the harmonised system, says that where you were last employed and paid significant contributions will pick up the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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